Behind our forehead, right here in the, in the front of our brain, the prefrontal cortex is where executive functions sit. It's like the c e o of our brain, and it has to do with the skills required for planning, organization, prioritizing task activation, so getting started on tasks, sustaining attention on a task, completing managing time, attention.
All of these things that can be impacted, A variety of people may have challenges with one or more of those executive functioning skills.
Welcome to the Managing Made Simple podcast, where I bring a decade of experience working in some of the most influential companies in tech to help you navigate the ins and outs of being a people manager from conflicts to feedback, to delegating and more. We will leave no stone unturned when it comes to what makes us love managing, kind of hate it and everything in between.
Doesn't matter if you're a new manager looking for some tips. Or a seasoned manager looking up their game. Everyone is welcome to hang out with Managing Made Simple. Let's go. Let's go, let's go. I know you're here because you want to be a better manager, but I also know it's often easier than done. That's why I put together a scorecard of 20 things that you can do this month and every month to show up better for your team as a manager, from positive feedback to recognition, to honoring those working norms that we know we gotta do, but sometimes forget.
This scorecard serves as a checklist and accountability buddy to remind you of all those things you gotta do to be a great manager. Download your copy today at liagarvin.com/scorecard.
Welcome back to the show. I am so excited today to have Margaux Joffee with me. Margaux is a neurodiversity speaker, consultant, and co-founder of the great A D H D Reset program.
She is an entrepreneurial leader whose work currently focuses on improving employment outcomes for neurodivergent adults. She's known for being a top 50 global neurodiversity evangelist, a leading advocate for women with A D H D, as well as a driving force for neurodiversity inclusion in Silicon Valley.
Formerly an award-winning producer across public health advertising and tech. Margo's superpower is her ability to inspire collaboration around a common goal and produce results. She is proudly neurodivergent and serves on the board of directors for the American Association of People with Disabilities.
And Margo and I, we go way back. So we went actually to high school. School together, and we've kept in touch over the years really following each other's journeys as we've worked on building more inclusive teams within larger companies, and both ventured into the entrepreneurial space. And with this podcast, I aim to make the workplace better for everyone, no matter what kind of company you're in, what background you have, what size team you're in, what industry you're in, and that is why I was so excited to bring on Margaux to talk about neurodiversity and how managers can better understand and support their neurodivergent team members.
Welcome to the show. Thank you, Lia. I know. And who would've thought all those years ago that fast forward, I'm not gonna say how many years ago. Yeah, it was that we would be on a podcast together. But thanks for having me. I really love the mission of this podcast, making the workplace a place where everyone can thrive.
So really ex. Excited to talk about this topic with you. Yes. Well, I'm so excited you're here, and I know you are overseas right now, right? So is this, are you calling in the evening or are you back in the States? Oh, I'm back in the States. Okay. Okay. I'm based in Seattle, Washington. Okay. Yeah, I'm back in the States, but I was recently in Singapore where I had the opportunity to meet with this amazing D H D organization, moon Lake Lee, the founder of Unlocking D H D.
I'm not gonna go into that whole tangent, so I can talk about that for the whole show. So yeah, back to you. Awesome. Well, welcome back. So, diving right in, you know, we're talking about neurodiversity and for folks listening who maybe they're not fully clear on what this is or this is maybe the first time hearing it, I'm curious for you to explain, you know, what is neurodiversity and why it's so important for leaders and managers to understand, understand what this is and, and what their role is in supporting it.
Yeah, and first of all, I wanna say thank you to everyone who's like tuning in and listening to this episode. Thank you for taking the time to learn more about Neurodiversity, and my hope is that, that on this episode, you're going to leave with an understanding of what neurodiversity is, a better understanding of how you can support and empower your team members.
And then just have some concrete best practices around accessibility that will actually just help everyone on your team. So neurodiversity what it is, we've been hearing more about this word lately. This is something that all managers need to know about because neurodiversity is short for neurological diversity.
It's a term that refers to the neurocognitive variation in our human species. What the heck does that mean? It means that everyone's brain is different, right? There's minds of all kinds in our workplaces, in our families, in our communities. This is a normal fact of life. But we haven't always thought about brains in this way before.
Neurodiversity is used also as an umbrella term to refer to various conditions like. Autism Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, other learning disabilities like dyslexia, dyscalculia, and other neurodivergent conditions like Tourette's, obsessive Convulsive disorder. So essentially conditions where folks may have brains that where they, they learn, they communicate, they process information in a way that is categorized as quote unquote, atypical.
It doesn't mean that anything's inherently wrong or. Deficient about the person. It's just that this is how it has been categorized. So neurodiversity is common about one in five, um, people have some type of learning or attention different. So neurodiversity is very, very common, but unfortunately not commonly understand.
Stood in. Yeah. Most workplaces. Yeah. And I feel like I'm hearing now a lot of folks saying I was diagnosed as an adult with ADHD or you know, I've recently learned like, this explains so much. Like I'm curious more about this specific to ADHD cuz it just seems like something I'm hearing more and more about right now.
Yeah. Yeah. We're definitely seeing more of that and you know, just to share like, um, um, Brief on my story. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was 29, so when I was in high school, college, you know, even into my career, I didn't even know that I had ADHD until I was 29. I was really struggling with depression, anxiety, and it, and, and I started having it.
Anxiety attacks, and then I knew something was wrong, and so then I ended up getting evaluated. But I never thought I had ADHD and women especially have gone under the radar because most many women have the inattentive subtype of ADHD. So there's like three subtypes of ADHD, the hyperactive impulsive subtype, the more inattentive subtype, and then the combined, which is like a mix of both.
So commonly people think of a stereotype of like a hyperactive young boy when they think of ADHD and not everyone with ADHD is, is physically hyperactive. Yeah. A lot of times a hyperactivity has to do with like the cognitive hyperactivity, the bombardment of thoughts, having a hundred of thoughts going in your mind at the same time.
The good news is there's so many strategies and things that we can do to quiet our mind, to be able to have a better management of our own attention. So that's a message I always wanna leave people with that having ADHD. It doesn't have to be a negative thing. There's so much that we can do to build on our strengths and live with a little bit more ease with ADHD.
But ADHD, it was originally classified in the DSM as a childhood disorder, and it wasn't till later that it was reclassified as something that was recognized that is persistent like through adulthood. Like, oh wow. It's something that doesn't go away. Yeah. It's something that we manage over the course of our life.
It's not something that can be cured or fixed. It's different brain wiring. Yeah. Yeah. So it's part of who we are, so. That's why a lot of people didn't get diagnosed until adults, or they went through a life stage or a life experience where maybe they were able to cope previously, but then the volume of stressors that they had in their life exceeded their ability to cope.
Yeah. And so then things fell apart, and then they maybe sought help and got diagnosed. Wow. And, and I mean, to talk about the stereotype, I mean, for you personally knowing you were like a star, star performer in high school, like to share a little bit more about, and so like, I mean for like, I, I think people never would've assumed because you were such a high achiever and you were like getting straight A's and went to a great college.
Like I imagine that that made it maybe harder to understand or like kind of, it felt like it must not be that because of these stereotypes about what it is. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I think some of the things that helped in my upbringing was that I was in a very structured upbringing. My parents were a little bit strict, and so I had a lot of structure and routine.
I was also a competitive athlete. I was a junior Olympic runner. Yeah. And so I think the, all of the, you know, there's studies that show that exercise is. Can be just as effective as medication in terms of managing ADHD symptoms. And so exercise is part, you know, movement is part of a lot of people's treatment plans when it comes to managing ADHD.
And I think the fact that I was an athlete and, and had a lot of structure in my life really helped keeping a lot of the ADHD symptoms at bay. However, I remember using. I got in trouble in school, starting in second grade, frequently getting sent outside of the classroom for being disruptive in class, for being chatty, for laughing in class.
I would procrastinate my homework and stay up really late at night, lie to my parents, say my homework was done when it wasn't, or I would forget that I had assignments and then I would sit in the parking lot during lunch and copy people's homework and all of those things because I didn't have an explanation.
I just thought I was being lazy. I was, you know, just being. Uh, being a bad kid or whatever it was, because I was smart, I knew that I was smart, so I just thought I was being lazy. And then when I went to college, that's when I really started struggling with more so of the depression, the anxiety, and I really didn't have the organizational skills to, to keep up.
Wow. And if we flash forward now to, you know, employ managers and leaders, managing folks, like look at what, what folks are wrestling with that it's not, it doesn't mean that someone's a low performer. And I really wanna stress that because I think as Margo talked about, there are. Ways to cope with, with what's going on.
But it doesn't mean that you don't need more support, and it doesn't mean that it's easy and that you've figured it out. So nobody needs to bother with it. And I think that's really why we wanted to talk about this today and, and what a big part of your work is, is raising awareness that, you know, there's like this hidden, you know, situation that people are dealing with and they may have done really well.
Yeah. And yet it doesn't make it easier. Yeah, and people might be listening thinking like, okay, like, so you might have a little challenge here and there. Does this really matter? And I wanna just give a couple stats to really highlight why it's so important that we're doing more to support neurodiversity in the workplace.
The first stat is around, Dyslexia made by dyslexia organization. They did a study in 2021 and they found that three out of four dyslexic people say that the recruitment process puts them at a disadvantage, and 79% believe that the recruitment process doesn't give them the opportunity to demonstrate their true abilities.
So the majority of folks with dyslexia feeling that they are at a disadvantage when it comes to even like getting a job in the first place when it comes to autism, the National Autistic Society. Released a stat that 85% of autistic folks are unemployed. So this is something very severe we see with autism is that there are so many people that are unemployed or underemployed, and that's something that, that we need to be addressing.
And with ADHD employees with ADHD are 60% more likely to be fired from their jobs and three times more likely to quit a job impulsively. Mm-hmm. So there's a lot of challenges around employment. Maintaining employment. A lot of adults with h ADHD have fears around getting fired from their jobs or, or losing their jobs.
So these are, there's a real impact on people's ability to access and maintain stable employment. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is why it's so, yeah. So important that, yeah, we're thinking about how can we remove barriers for folks in the workplace. Yeah. So let's talk strategies for supporting folks. I mean, what are a few concrete things managers can do?
Well, actually, before we say, well, you may not even know it, so I would love, I would love to talk about, you know, concrete things managers can do. For anyone, right? To build just best practices. I talk a lot about building inclusive teams. I know you do as well is like how do we build, what are some strategies we can do to build inclusive teams so that we support more of our, our neurodivergent employees, but then obviously we make a better situation for everyone.
Yes, yes. Oh my gosh, there's so much I want to talk about and lonely, like so little type. Okay, so such a great question because. What I always tell managers is assume that there's neurodiversity on your teams. Yeah. And amongst your colleagues, because the majority of folks do not disclose in the workplace.
We know this from data that, and just even more broadly, the majority of people with disabilities and will not formally disclose their diagnosis in the workplace because people are afraid. So there's lack of disclosure. Another thing is that a lot of folks may not even know that they're neurodivergent because of what we discussed earlier.
People may be undiagnosed, maybe they're not even aware that they are neurodivergent, and so just taking the approach that understanding that everyone on your team learns processes, information and works differently. And everyone has a different type of of brain. So just when we start with that perspective, then it just becomes the way that we approach everyone instead of singling somebody out, like, oh, how do I deal with this one neurodivergent person over there, which is what we want to avoid.
Right? Right. Absolutely. So one, one of the simple things that. Just sounds so simple, is taking a strength-based approach with your employees. Really taking the time to get to know everyone on your team as individuals, and taking the time to really understand what are their strengths, what are the things that interest them, that motivate them?
How do they work best? How do they. Like to communicate and receive feedback, and then what are the areas where they need support? What are the things that are more challenging for them? Because everyone has unique strengths and everyone has areas where they need support with, right? So yeah, not just people who are neuro diversion or people with disabilities.
So taking time to understand all the strengths and needs of all of your. Your team members. Yeah, absolutely. And, and folks, we've heard this before, right? This is how we manage effectively in general, and as Margo says, because we don't know by, by really being, we don't know if someone is neuro divergent, and we should already assume that at least one, several team members likely are, this is about being a good manager and effective manager, that it's going to benefit everyone.
Because having clear, you know, expectations and understanding what success looks like and being recognized for good work, all of those things are qualities that great managers do because it makes sure that everybody can be successful. Yeah. And we, you know, like we also don't know what's going on with someone.
There might be added stressors of why they didn't understand this. So like these, the, what was, and Margo and I have been talking a lot offline about some of these sort of best practices, how. They're even more important to be attuned into and be really doubling down on because we can un inadvertently create more stress on someone that's already navigating, like more complexity because of their condition.
When you were mentioning clear priorities, showing what success looks like, You know, I listened to the other episodes on your podcast before we did this, and at so many episodes I was like, yes. This is an example of how to be more inclusive for neuro divergent folks. Cuz at the end of the day, when we lead with neurodiversity in mind, it actually benefits everyone and things that you mention on the podcast.
And I would encourage people if you're listening to this, to go and listen to the other episodes, just the best practices around how to give direction and clear expectations, clear priorities. For a lot of these neurodivergent conditions, ADHD, dyslexia, autism, even folks who have traumatic brain injury or long covid, it can impact what is called executive functioning.
So behind our forehead, right here in the, in the front of our brain, the prefrontal cortex is where executive function sit. It's like the CEO of our brain, and it has to do with the skills required for planning. Organization prioritizing task activation. So getting started on tasks, sustaining attention on a task, completing managing time, attention, all of these things that can be impacted.
A variety of people may have challenges with one or more of those executive functioning skills. So there's things that we can do as neuro divergent people to, to build those muscles and to support ourselves. And for managers. There's things you can do to support your team members, so, Just back again to what I was just saying and that you talk about is being really clear on priorities for your team.
Yep. Being very clear on expectations. And what does success look like? Clarifying the unwritten rules in the workplace. Mm, yes. Suppose what are those? Social expectations, even down to like expectations around dress codes for an event with clients, right? Things that you may take for granted. When you clarify those, those unwritten rules or unwritten expectations, it can help folks who may feel like they're living in a world where everyone has.
The rule book and they were never given the instruction manual. Mm-hmm. Um, in terms of just how to adult and how to do things in society. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's something that a lot of neurodivergent folks may feel where like everyone knows what the social expectations are. And they feel like they never got the memo.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, and I imagine, you know, with each, each company, organization or team has its own cultures. And like you say, a lot of that's nuanced. A lot of it also can fall on that majority group. And so I think also looking as a manager on where can I. Be more inclusive? Where are these things actual, maybe old expectations that don't need to be the case anymore.
Maybe we haven't been very inclusive already, like some of the team norms are around things that are after work hours or things that just in general need to be revisited. So I think you're drawing more attention. Yeah. Centered around alcohol. Yeah. Or centered around activities that can be physically intense and may not be inclusive for folks that may have disabilities.
And a lot of folks may have non apparent dis disabilities, so just because someone's not a wheelchair user for example, doesn't mean they may not have a chronic illness or, or some other type of disability that they may be managing. Yeah. And I'm curious, you know, for folks, this is, I love that we're doubling down on it's.
General great management. It benefits everyone. Like the, the best practice around managing this is also so there's not new things you need to do because this is like anything we talk on the show is not about adding more time, it's about actual optimizing because when you do it, everybody can be successful and that's a time saver.
But I'm curious for folks that managers listening and they are neuro divergent and they're feeling like, well, I need to ask for some support from my own manager. Like I, maybe I'm realizing, gosh, I, I recognize a lot of the symptoms Margo's talked about. Maybe I have adult, you know, undiagnosed ADHD and like, how would you recommend, especially in your own professional journey, as you've managed and led teams and been navigating this on your own as a leader, how do you ask for support when you're in that situation and na, you know, having to be leading and getting support?
Yeah. In our ADHD program, we have a module about self-advocacy in the workplace. Mm-hmm. And it's. It's really an art, right? How to, it's, it's a whole topic, how to navigate, you know, asking for support in the workplace. I always recommend to folks start with learning about what's going on with you first, before you open up that conversation with your manager because you wanna come into that conversation, feeling confident and having that understanding of yourself first, and understanding what you need, because your manager may not know anything about.
The condition that you have, and they may not even know how to support you. So you can enlist professional help if people think they may have ADHD. There's some self-test for ADHD that are published by Attitude Magazine. Mm-hmm. Those are not a formal diagnosis, but it can give you an idea if you may wanna seek a professional evaluation.
And then if you are employed, I'm assuming that you have some health insurance so that you can access an evalu, an ADHD evaluation, and really working with. Your healthcare team to understand what's going on with you and to work with your healthcare team to start brainstorming. Like what are some things that might be helpful for you in the workplace?
So then you can go and have that conversation with your, open up that conversation with your manager. Now, I do wanna say, I understand that some people may be struggling or they're waiting to get. Their evaluation. Or another common scenario is when people may be changing medication and they're having, you know, they're having a hard time with that.
So sometimes you can just open up the conversation with your manager, like, you know, I'm, I'm dealing with a health issue right now. I'm not quite ready to talk about it, but I need a little, I might need a little bit of flexibility over the next couple weeks and I would love to check back in with you and give you.
And update so you can open up that conversation even if you're not ready to kind of like have the full conversation yet. And I would also want people to know, you know, under the Americans with Disabilities Act, employees with disabilities are protected from discrimination by law. And companies with more than 15 employees are required to provide reasonable accommodations for their employees with disabilities so that they can perform the essential functions of their role.
So it is your right as if you have a disability. To access those basic accommodations so that you can have access to work. Mm-hmm. So it's not a special request. This is something that is your right. So if you need an adjustment in your role or your physical work environment so that you can perform your job, this is something that I hope you can feel confident about asking for and having that conversation.
You can have that conversation directly with your manager, or if you don't feel comfortable talking to your manager, you can go directly to hr, to your HR business partner or someone else if you have an accommodations team, and every company has a different process, but companies should have a process in place for how employees can submit.
Requests for accommodations, and usually that will open up an interactive conversation with HR and your manager, where then you can brainstorm different adjustments or support so that you can be successful in your role. Yeah. So then on the flip side, for managers listening to this, maybe that didn't realize that if someone comes to them and, and discloses that they, you know, are neurodiverse or have a certain condition, that now it's time to have that discussion about the accommodation.
Yeah. So first of all, if one of your team members comes to you and discloses that they have a disability, then that's great cuz that means that they trust you. That means that they feel comfortable and it probably took a lot for them to, for many people to muster up the courage to have that conversation.
Cuz a lot of people are afraid of, of how they're gonna be perceived or if it's gonna impact how they're seen in the workplace. So I always recommend like first like acknowledge and validate. That person, thank them for sharing this information with you. And then ask them, you know, if there's anything that they would want you to know that would be relevant for you to know and ask how you can be supportive.
Is there anything that they need in order to be successful in their role? And. I would say one of the things to avoid is avoid making assumptions about the person based on what they disclosed, because everyone is different. And so there's a saying like if you meet one person with autism, you meet one person with autism, the same as other conditions.
You know, it can look different for everyone. So just because you may have, like maybe you have a sibling or a friend with that condition, it doesn't mean that it's gonna show up the same for the other person. Yes, of course. Yeah, so I mean, I love this. It's very concrete. It's, it's, you know, starting that conversation.
It's not making assumptions. It's doing these best practices around being, being an effective manager, giving feedback specific and actionable feedback. Setting those clear expectations, recognition, right. Yeah. Can I double click into the feedback? I don't know why. I just like double click. I don't even like that phrase.
Let's drill in. Let's circle back. Let's drill down. Oh my God. All the feedback, all the tech. Well, my favorite, my favorite topic. Feedback. Of course, we can dive in. Let's zoom in. Let's zoom in. Okay. We're gonna drill down. So. One nuance that I wanna, that I wanna offer perspective on is around nuance, around providing feedback for folks who are neurodivergent, especially those who have ADHD.
Some managers, you may have heard this term, floating around rejection sensitivity dysphoria. Basically, for most people with ADHD, they're gonna be coming into the workplace with years, if not a lifelong of experiences with. Criticism and rejection. And there's actually a really, like, there's a stat I always talk about from psychiatrist William Dotson.
Um, he estimates that by the age of 12, people with ADHD have received 20,000 more negative messages than their peers. From, oh my gosh. This is from parents, from teachers, from other adults. And so imagine by the age of 12, children with ADHD already have 20,000 more negative me messages. Now they're in the workplace as adults, and so this, this really can have a huge impact on self-esteem and, and couple that with the emotional sensitivity and sometimes the impairment and emotional regulation that can come with h ADHD, it creates this recipe for people with ADHD can kind of be a little bit more sensitive to negative.
Feedback and criticism. And then a lot of folks, like over 70% of people with ADHD also have co-occurring anxiety and or depression diagnoses as well. So a lot of folks are coming in with a lot of anxiety as well around criticism or like I had mentioned before, potentially getting fired from their jobs.
So the main takeaway is that positive feedback can go such a long way for people with ADHD and neurodivergent folks in general. And everyone in general, right? Like again, back to all your employees. But thinking about like if you see opportunities to provide more frequent positive feedback or just affirmations that, that your team members on the right track that mm-hmm.
They're working in alignment with the priorities that the progress they shared is like, Going great. You know, whatever it is. Like any chance to provide just affirmation that they're on the right track, positive feedback. It can go such a long way in helping folks build their confidence. And I always say, don't wait until the annual review to provide constructive feedback, either, you know, it just, you can provide little nudges along the way.
Yeah. Yeah. And this doesn't mean, you know if things are not going well or you gonna need to course correct. You don't say it like, this is not the takeaway. It's there's to not only focus on the negative, not only focus on the fixing, but to talk about, you know, that there are things that are going well, like, and, and to be really specific with identifying that you don't have to congratulate someone at the end of the project.
Right? Like refining those moments. To recognize and validate, because as you're saying, that's a huge way to show someone that like, it's not all wrong. It's not all bad. Yeah. And I think with, you know, there's a lot of, you know, debate about, you know, do people want to focus on, you know, strengths versus weaknesses?
Well, you've already talked about that strength-based approach. And, you know, Marcus Buckingham talks about this a lot. The founder of the Strengths Finders, you know, and, and the co-founder of. Of that in Clifton's strengths and like, there's so much evidence around, again, not only neuro diversion, but people in general, especially right now where motivation and engagement's low people are needing some, they're needing to know like, yes, I matter.
I'm seen, I am. What the work I'm doing is recognized and appreciated. It doesn't mean I don't think it's perfect, but it means like I have to know that, you know, it's not a disaster. Right? Yes. So we have to be giving our team members more, and I love that you called that out around the sensitivity around feedback because feedback's one of those things that is one of the hardest skills that managers have to continually be working on.
Yes. Like even if we're good at it in one situation, we may not be in the next, and it's not about us and how we would feel. It's about that employee that you're giving the feedback to and what they need to be able to hear that message. Yes, and you have a great episode on this as well, on your podcast. So when you get in the conversation, if an employee with ADHD, they miss a deadline, for example, it's not about asking them, why did you miss this deadline?
I love how you're talking about using the word what instead of why. And it's like, let's, let's have a conversation. This was a challenging project. You know, what were some of the things that that got in the way? How can I support you in removing those? Roadblocks on this next project that's coming up and really holding space for the person with ADHD to come to their own solutions because they'll know best what they need.
And the number one pitfall we wanna avoid is micromanagement, which is a. Natural response. A lot of managers might turn to, if an employee is starting to struggle, then they're like, oh, I need to get in there and micromanage. And so instead of doing that, coming with the curiosity and creating those conversations, asking what's getting in the way or asking if the employee's stuck, what's the easiest first step they can take?
Cuz sometimes just getting started can be the most overwhelming thing for people who have executive functioning impairments is the. The task activation, actually just getting started on a big project can be very daunting. So instead of having like a deadline in three months, you as the manager can practice the chunking strategy of having, you know, smaller deadlines at key milestones.
So you're not micromanaging, but you're helping create that scaffolding and structure. To help support where there may be executive functioning impairments when it comes to organizing and project management. Yeah, I love that. And I mean, the, the biggest antidote to micromanaging as, as we've both said, is setting clear expectations.
Because if you've been clear and you're checking in and you're offering that support, so like you said, that scaffolding then, You like it is your responsibilities manager to take a step back and let someone try and let someone explore and let someone, you know, figure things out while you're also there providing support.
So, yes, I love it. Yeah, and I mean, we could talk about this all day, so I know as we start to wrap up, I'm curious like, you know, where can people learn more about this and the work that you're doing and. For folks that wanna dive deeper, circle back. You all are things. Circle back. Follow up. Yeah. Well, you actually inspired me.
I am going to put together a free guide for managers and just, I'll have it on my website, margo jaffy.com. I also have a resources section on my website if you're interested in learning more. You can just go to the resources section and find some more resources all around neurodiversity in the workplace.
If you yourself have ADHD or you have an employee with ADHD, I co-facilitate a nine week professional development program for adults with d h ADHD with my business. Partner coach Kathy Rashid, who is a certified executive and ADHD coach, and she's actually also a coach trainer at ADCA, which is the American Disabilities Coach Academy.
So she trains other ADHD coaches, so it's really cool to partner with her and run that program. So all that info's on my website. Awesome. Well, I'll add that to the show notes. Anything to leave our listeners with before we wrap up? Well, I had seven pages of notes printed out because there is just so much that I want to share and talk about.
But I would, I would say thank you again for listening to this, and anytime that you take to learn about accessibility, to learn about inclusion, it is worth the investment because it will make you a better manager overall. It will benefit everyone on your team and not only your team members, but your customers, right?
So disability is, Part of all of the communities that we serve, our employees, our customers, our family, our communities. So it, it's relevant for everyone to learn about. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for being here today and for, you know, sharing all these insights and for listening to the show and pointing back to many others.
I, it's really awesome to see. See how, you know, like you said, doing, you know, focusing on this, setting this attention, it makes it better for everyone and, and that really is a goal I have with the show. So thank you so much and really excited for folks to continue to learn more about your work. Thanks for having me.
That's all I have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Managing Made Simple Podcast where my goal is to demystify the job of people management so that together we can make the workplace somewhere everyone can thrive. I always love to hear from you, so please reach out at liagarvin.com or message me on LinkedIn.
See you next time.
