The reality is I think we're observing even more prioritization of self and wellbeing for self than we ever have before. And as a manager, if you're not considering that, thinking about that in your decision making throughout the day, man, you're putting yourself at risk and in a really tough position for success because the risk is real.
Folks aren't loyal. There's no loyalty to anything that isn't reflective of reciprocity.
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Welcome back to the show today. I am so excited to have Farah Bernier with me. Farrah is an HR and central executive operations leader in tech, and Farah has quite the awesome resume.
I'll just dive into a little bit here. She's a multifaceted, experienced professional who specializes in partnering with Fortune 500 executive leaders as an executive human resources business partner and an executive coach. She partners with executive level leaders and their senior leadership teams developing talent management strategies that prioritize, attracting, retaining, developing, and promoting critical talent in ways directly tied to game changing business objectives.
I love that so much. So Farrah and I met through our shared journey as coaches, writers, and later to be podcasters. She had a head start on me, but we, we had a common passion there and, and really a shared passion for supporting leaders and teams within the corporate world to build inclusive, empowered, and high performing teams.
Farrah, I am so excited to have you on the show with me today. Thank you so much for having me, Lia. I am excited to be here with you. So excited for this chapter for you and your podcast and your listener. So thank you for having me. Well, you know, kicking off today with one of my favorite questions. It's always fun to hear from folks on who had a greater impact on your career.
One of your better managers or one of the ones that need a little bit of help, I'm gonna go with the ones that needed a little bit of help. And it's interesting when I saw the question, I was struck by that. It kind of saddened me a little bit, and it wasn't necessarily because I've had more managers who needed help than not.
It's just the palpability, memorability and impact of empathy. Mm-hmm. When you don't have a great manager, I think resonates much more intensely than the good ones sometimes. Right? Yeah. Because on some level I think it's, You learn the basics of management. You can be a good manager and you can have an impact on your folks in many different ways.
It takes real effort to be real intentional effort to be an extraordinary manager, and that doing that totally takes away extreme, but totally takes away some of the negative impact of managers who aren't so great. But when you have managers who are not great, there's combination of. Having to operate with a lot of grace for them in order not to lose your own sanity in the process.
Right? Which then leads to frustration. And at the end of the day, there is such a thing of appreciating being led and led well. And so when you have a manager who isn't so great, it's palpable and it's memorable, it's sticks with you. The impact is so strong. And if you're not someone who. Also has a manager who operates with empathy to recognize their own shortcomings.
Man, it can be a real rough cycle, especially when you think about the fact and I, I share this with my team all the time, and folks who I get to work with where I'm leading a work stream or things like that. Look, you're with me more than you are with people you would choose over me, i e your family, your friends.
I, I like me, I, I think I'm pretty cool. But if I were you, I could see how you wouldn't pick me first to spend quote unquote eight hours of your day with. And so here we are, how do we make this great? And I have found people respond to that so well. And it helps me as a manager, it helps me as a leader figure out what do people need, what agility do I have to offer, and how do I at minimum operate as a good manager, considering the fact that I know that I've had really bad managers.
Yeah. And I don't wanna be that for other people. Yeah, I love that so much. And I mean, I, I did an early podcast episode on what is your management style and, and the idea here is answering these questions that you're, you're posing is, you know, knowing what hasn't worked, what's been really difficult for you.
And some of the lows and highs I think are selves as managers. Thinking about, well, how can I set a real intention about how I want to show up? And it's really important to be thinking that because I think a lot of times we manage on autopilot based on the experiences we've had, even if they were kind of terrible.
So really setting an intention is so important. And I just, I have to pull that thread a little bit. I love the way you said that. You didn't say, You know, being intentional about how you wanna manage, you said being intentional about how you wanna show up. Yeah. And at the end of the day, isn't that what it's about managing?
It's just a thing, not minimizing it or anything, but at the end of the day, it is really about how do you wanna show up? So I love that. That's a really powerful reframe too. Yeah, thank you. And right now, when there's so much going on, so much change. So many for managers, we're being pulled in all different directions and faced with so many things that we don't know the answers to.
Yeah, it's not about having the answers as, as you say, it's about showing up. Every day committing to this intention that you've set and doing your best, but that requires some self-awareness and, and effort. It's not just like, it's not showing up in, in a bare minimum sense. I think if we show up with that intention, we can actually create such more of a stability and sense of support.
Then we're realizing. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm curious working both as an HR executive and executive coach, just spanning two different worlds, but a lot of overlap. Yes. What are some of the top issues that you see leaders wrestling with right now? In this moment? Yeah, in this season, and we just actually had a similar forum on this through the Leadership consortium at Harvard and.
One of the questions was, you know, what are you seeing and consistently what's coming up in both, you know, the corporate space. For me, what I'm observing and also with my coaching clients is the following decision making fatigue, the realities of vuca. Trying to proactively and effectively prioritize diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, especially in the season of return to work and some of the challenges that come with that, or hybrid work and also imposter syndrome consistently coming up.
So I'd say most of my time in these conversations around managing and leading, and then also just on coaching. These are the things that are coming up. These are the four things. Yeah. I wanna dive more into the decision fatigue. I'm curious, sort of unpacking that a little bit. I know managers have to be making decisions all of the time, but really what's showing up there, is it because there's more little decisions around all these things we didn't have to do before?
Is it like what's kind of sparked this? I think the first piece is there's so much more in the way of transition into management, especially in the tech side of the house. I think in the past there have been more pathways to progression or maybe balance pathways to progression. Also focused on individual contributor, which is great.
And there's also been, especially over the last three years, coincidence, I don't, I think not. Yeah. You know, with covid and adjustments to the how of work to managing and management responsibilities, and then all this shifting in practices around managers. Right. And I think what is happening is in that transition for individuals, And the shift in what's expected around management.
Yeah, there are more decisions. Decisions have compounding effects. The compounding effects. Lead to more of a focus on you as a whole person, as a manager, and the need for you as a manager and a leader to focus on the whole person of the individuals on your teams. Yes, and we can say that that's always been the case, but I think the consequences in the past of not operating that way have been far less.
Mm-hmm. Than they are now. And you can pull into the dynamics of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging with that, because a lot of this reflects generational differences. It reflects cultural zeitgeist of our world, not just the us. It reflects accountability. Around equity and what that means in different organizations for different demographics.
And that at the end of the day, we are being held to task as organizations, as leaders. That diversity, you don't get applause for that anymore. That's, that's global stakes. And so take all of that and then as a manager, you've got your job and you've got the management in your job. Mm-hmm. And it is, Reflected in decision making fatigue and people are tired.
Yeah, and I love that you called all these things out because I always say that this podcast, these conversations, they're not for entry managers, they're for any stage. Yeah. Because as you call out these things that leaders are having to wrestle with, Like you say, they were in the ether, but are being held accountable to now more than ever.
These are things that potentially you've been managing 20, 30 years and, and actually didn't have to think about or you know, you weren't, there was no real conversation around it. And I think especially with a new generation entering the workforce, you mentioned multi-generational workforce. Really very, very different relationships with work, with time, with purpose, with money, all of these things are creating.
So much more layers and dimension to managing people, to interacting with people, to relating to our teams and motivating them. And, and with engagement really waning right now and, and gallops reporting, you know, it's going down and down year after year. This is something that I think, especially the senior leaders, people that are overseeing multi-levels of managers and and large organizations really need to be thinking about is.
You know, are, am I really, again, back to the concept of showing up. How am I showing up for my teams and how am I demonstrating the awareness of these different dimensions? Maybe I could sort of brush aside Yeah. Because the workforce is saying, no, I'm not going to stay. Right. Even if there's not, you know, even if there's fear of layoffs or fear of.
You know, competition over new jobs or, you know, if I'm working in a, for a small business that I feel like, well, I'm excited about this work, but I'm not gonna stay Yeah. If these situations aren't showing up for me. Yeah. And I, I love the, call it there, because the reality is I think we're observing even more.
Prioritization of self and wellbeing for self than we ever have before. And as a manager, if you're not considering that, thinking about that in your decision making throughout the day, man, you're putting yourself at risk and in a really tough position for success. Because the risk is real. Folks aren't loyal.
There's no loyalty to anything that isn't reflective of reciprocity. Yeah. In even the employment contract. Yes. It's, it's no longer just that. Ugh. I love that so much. And I mean, I think we're seeing people are willing to, like, not even reciprocity, people are willing to. Far outweigh the wellbeing, the flexibility, the, you know, saying I'm willing to take maybe less money, less something else to less connection to the job or whatever, because I'm prioritizing and wellbeing.
As I talk about a lot, and I'm sure you talk about this a lot, it's not about giving someone a free lunch or one day off or, or telling them to take the vacation benefits that they're already entitled to. Right. I always see it as it's a restructuring of priorities, of making sure does someone's workload, is this manageable?
When we have to commute, does it mean that they have to work in the evenings also? So there's, wellbeing is really ties into how the work gets done. It's not just about giving a couple of fringe benefits. Mm-hmm. Right, right. Exactly. And I won't take us down this rabbit hole, but as you're pointing all those things out, it's also, and there's a lot of talk about this, and I know we could go on for five hours probably on this one topic, but it's about setting, honoring, recognizing, and reinforcing boundaries.
Right. You point to folks commutes. Well, there have been multiple years now where we've had zero commute and as a result there have been very minimum limited boundaries. If no boundaries for folks in terms of time. And you know, staying at home, it's easy to just keep going. Right? And now we're shifting into, at minimum, again, hybrid work, folks coming in Sundays.
Staying at home, somebody's like, and people are intentionally sending boundaries. And so how do you as a manager, honor, recognize, help reinforce that while doing exactly what you said, prioritizing effectively and reprioritizing as needed in a fair and equitable way, in a fair and equitable way. So, yeah, real easy.
Not a problem. Super simple. Well, exactly, and I think for small businesses, maybe you have a, a team that's fully remote. Yeah. This boundaries questions is gonna be really coming up. I, I think I have a lot of questions from founders, small business owners of, well, how do I create a, like, do I track work? How do I know what people are working on when I wanna be giving autonomy?
And I, I don't think it's about having. You know, an over overbearing, mana like monitoring system ever. I think it's about establishing trust, but very clear expectations that you continually check in on. Yeah. And have feedback be a two-way street so that you say, Hey, here, where's our plan? Where are we at with this?
How are things going? And have, I think the feedback loop is really the way that you. Tease that out of folks if you're not seeing them every day and, and creating a lot of moments around feedback so that you've demystified feedback. It's not this scary moment where everything's got wrong. It's about Yeah, we're, we're just having a conversation.
Yeah, and it, it's funny, this came up last week with one of my coaching clients. She is a senior executive just recently promoted into that role. And of course she's also in tech and of course, Lots of reorgs and restructuring that their organization has gone through, and also having to lead a new team.
And she's very candid. I don't trust this team. She's very right. Mm-hmm. Like, and there are many reasons for it. A lot of it tied to historical performance. And she also wants to ensure that she's not showing up as a micromanager. Yeah. And so as we talked about this, and to your point, people can have been managing for years, but there's always something new.
And so the reframe we landed on is instead of looking at it as micromanaging, because by the way your name is on the line. Yeah. If things don't go well, And this is a woman of color as well, and the repercussions of data show are even harder if it doesn't go well, right? Yeah. So what if it isn't about micromanaging?
What is it? What if it's about looking at opportunities to empower this team? Yes. To execute in the way that helps them meet or exceed your expectations? Such that you're not micromanaging, you're taking the mode of, to your point, showing up as a manager who empowers and you facilitate more trust both ways.
Yeah. Because these are also grown folks. They don't want you managing them, right? They're grown managing them either, and they're, they've gotta be capable to some level. They're still there. So how do we position you to empower as a means of managing effectively to meet the expectations for yourself? As well as your team and for your org.
Yeah. And so sometimes it just takes a little bit of that, not oversimplifying it for sure, but that opportunity to reflect led to, actually, I'll share what she said. She said, I'm just amazed by what I now see as possible. Hmm. And that's why this reflection is so important. Absolutely. And it's that, you know, not letting past failures, you know, dictate future successes or, or perceived future failures, I guess I should say, because I think it's, it's.
It's so important when you take on a new team. Remember the dynamic that team had with the previous leader is not the thing that you bring. You're a different person. You have different expectations. You lead in a different way, and if you just rely on what you've seen in the past, you are not giving that team an opportunity to to show up for you.
And, and I think that framing is so critical to like, to give everybody a fresh start and then, yeah, let them show you, okay, this, this, you know, without bringing in confirmation bias, but when you create a clean slate, you can see. Yes. And I've worked with so many teams where the previous leader I. They weren't holding themselves accountable for a lot of stuff, and so there was a lot of dysfunction in the team.
And a new leader comes in who changes the whole dynamic, and, and the way the team operates is completely different. So I love that example, and, and reminding ourselves, if we take on a team and we're like, Ugh, I've heard a lot of stuff, you know, there's, there's these different issues and we're getting really nervous about what we're gonna be expected to do is think about, well, how can I establish a new start for the set of folks?
So we talked about managers, you know, offering a, a new start and bringing a fresh perspective when, when they take on a new team. I think one of the things that both of us are seeing in, in teams and, and across really any industry is, is waning morale. We talked about engagement on the decline, and I'm curious, what are some of the strategies that you've shared with leaders in, in addressing this, you know, the disengagement again, in the midst of all the change and uncertainty and, and all the stuff going on.
Yeah, I recently shared a framework with another executive leadership team based in Boston, and I shared the following. The model around this is just tap in. Just tap in. And what I mean by that is the T is just practice some transparency, maybe vulnerable transparency. Yeah. And. The intention there is to facilitate, enhance trust when engagement and just morale is low.
People have lost some trust. Yeah, and it doesn't necessarily mean they've lost trust in you. They may be lost. And trust in the system and what you represent. Even if you're the best manager in the world, sometimes you just can't mitigate some of that stuff initially. But through transparency, vulnerably, you can create some trust.
And so just acknowledge. Yeah, things kinda suck right now. Yes. It's not great. Yeah. Right. And what that does is facilitate connection with folks. In a season where they may just feel like either connections aren't great or that they're not worth it to them. Hmm. And so I would say start with transparency.
Vulnerably. Yeah. And just be honest with which segues to the A of tap in is authenticity. Mm. Be real with folks because when you put the shine on everything, that to them just doesn't even have. A sliver of glimmer, you're outta touch and they question. People will question your empathy and intention more often than they will question your intellect first.
Mm-hmm. Wow. And so by not being authentic and real, It's kind of like it, it leads to a question of, again, back to trust, but also who am I working with? Yeah. Who is leading me and do I want to have access to this person? Yeah. So authenticity is that truth telling about who you are in this moment. Your sentiments and how you plan to approach it and opening the doors i e being accessible for others to come to you and share the same.
Now, the fine line here is you can't go griping as a manager and leader, but you can authentically share how things are landing with you. You know, one example for me is when folks. Ask how your day is going. Listen, it's whirling all around, but I'm okay. How are you? Yeah, because if I just say, great, is she outta touch?
Oh, she's definitely, I'm a horrible, like you can tell if I'm like, I just wouldn't land anyways. And it creates distance. Yeah. And then my invitation to being accessible is nobody wants that. Yeah. But when I can acknowledge things are crazy right now. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a huge swirl, but I, I really am.
Okay. And I can say that because I know you're gonna be okay too. What do you need? Yeah. How can I help? Right. So the authenticity facilitates all of that and encourages acceptance of your invitation to be accessible for those who need you. And then the P of Tap in is participate. You have power, more power than you probably realize as a manager in these seasons in your power.
It goes back to, I'm big on this being a facilitator of empowerment. Mm-hmm. So participate. Don't just sit in the live ivory tower saying, oh no, everything's gonna be great. Yes. Oh yeah. I know. It's hard. Like get in the work, roll up your sleeves with your people, participate. Yeah. And we are also in a season where I think more and more organizations have the expectation, especially of intech, to have the expectation that as a manager and a leader, you're actually also.
So and I see, right? What I mean by that is you have your full slate of work, you have your portfolio of points to execute on individually as well as leading your team, and you've gotta get in there and roll up your sleeves. You've gotta participate in the things that are causing your team additional burden, stress.
A sense of being overloaded. Yeah. And that actually puts you in a position of power in order to empower others. Yeah. And when you do all of that, again, operate with transparency, operate with authenticity, when you can participate with genuine commitment to rolling up your sleeves with your people. The mitigation around the, the sense of low morale and engagement is exponential because while people still see you as the leader, as a manager, they also see you as relatable.
They also see you as proximate. They also can sense trust. They embrace your accessibility, your invitation to be accessible, and they, they sense that empowerment that you do have for them. Yeah, through the work. So that's, that's the framework that I share. We, we literally just did a 90 minute session on this with the leadership team because it also looks very different for different people, different teams.
Yes. But it's pretty powerful when you can put it in play. Yeah. I love that. I mean, I think two things to, to build on that are one, you know, Being there in the conversation is like, you say it, it shows people that even though I don't have all the answers, I'm here with you. You know, I'm, I'm locking arms with you and I'm sharing that, that we will figure this out together.
And I think one thing that can, you know, tank morale even lower is if there's big news, layoffs, restructuring, change of priorities, and that leader is absent, they send an email and they're nowhere to be seen. I mean, even if they say, I want to give you time to process. We see right through that. We think, we think, no, you didn't wanna answer questions.
I know you're game, like, like you say, because people make assumptions. They assume your credibility is at stake. Yeah. So like give your, give your team members the benefit of the doubt that they, they just want to be seeing you and they want you to be there. And I think, you know, absolutely with the point on participating, this actually sets you up more for success on that decision fatigue issue.
So if you are in there and you understand what is it like to work in this company, and I think this really for, for folks managing startups or small businesses, this is really, really important. Like things are moving fast. You wanna be agile, you wanna make decisions quickly. You have to actually understand what is it like in the day-to-day in your business?
What are people getting stuck on? Where could you be more clear? Where are things sort of, you know, you think a priority is one thing and the teams think it's something else and the wires are getting crossed, so that participate point is so vital. Really in any time, especially when there's morale, because you have the power then to diagnose the things that you wanna change.
And this is what I do with the ops playbook is, is sitting down with founders and entrepreneurs and, and small business owners and say, Hey, let's, let's actually make sure that we understand what it's like to work in your business and bring together the things that you think about and you know, and you wanna see and make sure these are being translated across how your team works together.
So I love this TAP framework for reminding ourselves. That we have to show up for our teams. We have to be there. We have to, you know, answer hard questions. And I have a whole episode on LinkedIn, the show notes about, you know, how to answer questions when you don't have the answers. Yes. I love that. Yeah.
But it also, I, I love how it points right back to that decision fatigue, like you said, because, hey, if we feel like we have to make all these decisions, we don't, we don't actually have the tools. We, we do have the tools to make many of the decisions if we are tuned in to, to where our team members are getting stuck and what they're wanting, a hundred percent.
A hundred percent. Well, before we wrap, I wanna talk about, you know, how teams can create a sense of belonging. You mentioned, you know, the importance of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, and I think one thing that was, has been disheartening at the start of the pandemic now with economic uncertainty is I think a lot of momentum and focus that teams had potentially prior to this.
It sort of became in this survival mode, we're gonna focus on certain of these things less. And just, I'm curious what you've observed and how you continue to empower teams and leaders to keep their foot on the gas on these priorities. Yeah. I think the first thing is being very clear about what you mean by belonging in your organization, right?
Different organizations actually mean very different. Things when it comes to that term and whatever definition you use. So be it. You know, there are many different advisors, coaches, D D E I B experts out there with different definitions. What I always lean on when it comes to belonging, both personally, professionally, you know, I, I'm involved in a lot of different immunity efforts as well.
But when I look at belonging, what I lean into is the facilitated experience. Of anyone as part of a whole team group, what you wanna call it, that knows that they're positioned to contribute their very best and be valued for their contributions, whether it be opinion, product outcome, you name it, so that everybody has a voice.
Everybody knows that they are welcomed, ie included, and their presence has value such that. They know they can be there. There's no question, or where there's question, there's opportunity to discuss and have very candid conversation. So again, from a sense of belonging, the question to be answered is, can I show up as my best self and be valued for what I bring to the table?
And have those with whom I engage, honor that and honor me in that way. And so if that, if we can align on that definition, What I think organizations, teams, leaders, managers can do is embrace what people bring to the table, acknowledge the value of what the different contributions are, even when there's varying perspectives, because then it's not bring everything to the table and we will accept everything.
That just, let's just be honest. That's not how it works, right? But bring everything to the table and let's assess what good. That's coming from everyone is the best for everyone in everything. Yeah. I have never felt like I belonged because everything that I bring to the table is accepted. Mm-hmm. The situations in which I have felt most like I belong is be, is when.
My voice is welcomed, my contributions are welcomed, and when there is disagreement on what is the best targeted outcome, we, we have a conversation Yeah. About it. And I, I have this whole thing about we're all on one team and what's best for the one team. So then even if my contribution isn't that, which is selected, I have been heard.
I have been seen, I have been acknowledged. My contribution has been recognized and then I'm told it sucks and move belong, but well, I'm on board because of that. Right, right. But, but it also means my teammate, who's also part of that one team, is getting to showcase what's quote unquote best in the moment.
Yeah. Everybody has their turn, and it doesn't mean one person or one point of contribution is slighted. It means if we're holding the standard of . What's best for the team in this moment right now? Farrah, you're great. Thanks. Love the perspective, but we got this thing going on right now. I think Lia's perspective, what is what we need to lean on in the moment?
But you know what, can we come back to X, Y, and Z point? Cuz I think we'll be able to use it or Hey Farrah, I really didn't think that was a great idea and here's why. Help me understand where you were going. You know, like it, it's more facilitative of the embrace. Versus conducive to exclusion. That's what we're trying to get to as managers and leaders.
Yeah. Uh, that is the perfect place to wrap. I mean, I think in that, I would say re-listen to that two, three times everybody here because this is how you put this into practice. And I think a lot of the questions that I was asked both when I was developing diversity inclusion programming, now consulting teams around this is, you know, tell me what to do and I'll do it.
Well, ferret just told you what to do, so literally. Literally the ways that you can approach this conversation. How can you create psychological safety and create more sharing of ideas? How can you have a con constructive dialogue and a brainstorm? How can you have a difficult, you know, sort of debate?
Well, this is how we do it, so re-listen to that segment, I'm telling you, because that is when it feels abstract. I care about this, but I don't know what to do. Erin just shared so awesome things to do. Make a script out of it, write it down. Yeah, and if I can just offer one point, I always offer this and it's not, you know, excusing accountability or, and it's not giving people a pass.
This is hard. This is really, really, really hard cuz it's so gray. But there are very, not easy but simple ways. To address the gray in order to execute with your intended impact. And really quickly, like one of the first things we do is what's the team's mission, vision North Star? And then we go into what's the plan around decision making?
What's your operating model like, what are, what do these things, these inputs to how this team operates so that when. There's risk around the gray that's represented in the nuance of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. We can go back to this, which essentially is your team's charter. Yeah. And these are the things we call soft skills and, and gray and, and hard.
Let's just jump into the work. We'll just execute the work. And then you, you do have a challenge, right? And you don't have these simple things that if you took. I may be pitching here, but like a full day session with our, you know, address this head on even before it became an issue. And so I just posed that out there because I, I acknowledge this as hard, it's not easy, but it, it can be facilitative both for the manager.
And the leader and for the team that they're leading. Yeah. And managing. Yeah. And one thing to plug that is it doesn't take more time like the, the having that conversation up front when people say, let's just jump right in and we'll focus on the work stuff, people stuff later. It's like, well, the people stuff is what's gonna slow you to a grinding halt if you don't focus on that.
And, and I mean, working in team operations, it was like, The only way to get people to operate at their best, at speed, at quality is to figure out the people suffer first. So this is actually a time saver. Having these conversations figure and upfront I need you to put that on a t-shirt. Cause you said it, the HR person didn't say it.
You said it. That's awesome.
That's why HR is always my best friends because I was like, I know how to make the "how" Right. Come to life. Yeah. So I love it.
I'd love for you to share how folks can get in touch with you and learn more about your work. Yeah, you can reach me via LinkedIn. Just my full name, F A R A H, last name is B E R N I E R.
Um, feel free to email me. I'm at [email protected]. I'm also, uh, an executive coach and I'm always happy to partner with leaders in their own one-on-one. Exploratory engagements and also team engagements. You can always reach me at farahbernier.com and just happy to partner, help and see what you need and how I can either be that resource for you or help you find the right resource for you.
This is a critical area of interest of mine and I'm committed to excellence in it, so whatever I can do to help, please don't hesitate. Reach out. Awesome. Anything you wanna leave our listeners with before we drop? You got this. There was so much I wanted to share just kind of as that like mic drop moment to your point.
But I think in the season where there's just a lot on managers, there's a lot on leaders, there's so much more gray, it can feel so overwhelming. And in the spirit of also just addressing what I'm seeing around imposter syndrome, come up, know that. Leaders, managers have done this work before you, leaders and managers have will be doing this work after you.
You're just standing in the gap figuring out how to do that the best in this moment, in this season that we're all confronting together and, and you really, you've got it. You wouldn't be in your roles if you weren't positioned to execute in this space, in this way as a manager and a leader. It's just a continued learning journey.
Thank you so much. Such a fun conversation. So many great insights. Yes. Thank you. Thanks, Lia.
That's all I have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Managing Made Simple Podcast where my goal is to demystify the job of people management so that together we can make the workplace somewhere everyone can thrive.
I always love to hear from you, so please reach out liagarvin.com or message me on LinkedIn. See you next time.
