We train people, we teach people, and it's typically skills that are what we need for our company, for our bottom line, right? For your job description. Yeah, all of this. But one thing we're not that great at all the time actually as humans is the actual act of learning because we consume so much information, but consumption and development are two completely different things.
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Let's welcome back to the show today. I am so excited to have Abbie Mirada with me today. Abbie is a learning and development executive and the founder of The Entrepreneur Project.
Abbie has spent time in both the corporate space and as an entrepreneur. She's also the founder of The Entrepreneur Project, as I mentioned, which is a program dedicated to guide driven entrepreneurs to be personally fulfilled, grow professionally, and create inspired impact inside and outside of their organizations.
Abbie and I were introduced because of our mutual interest in supporting people both in the entrepreneurial and corporate world, and we have a shared belief that you can lean into an entrepreneurial spirit even when working in a corporate. And I had the great fortune of being able to join her last Entrepreneur Project retreat and be a speaker there.
And I'm so excited to have her on the show today to talk about entrepreneurship, what that means, learning development, and all things supporting managers. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Lia. I'm excited to be here too. It is always fun to have someone you can geek out over this stuff with cuz it's not like, it's not like bar talk with your friends.
So Yeah, I love. And I'm curious, you know, as we dive in, I mentioned intrapreneur and, and for folks listening, this is with an I, not an E I'd love for you to start just by defining that for us. What is entrepreneurship? Yeah. So you know, it's when you bring entrepreneurial skills into your organization and organizational skills into your entrepreneurial, and it's kind of having this mental capacity of both, doing both and sharing those worlds together to not be an employee, not be an entrepreneur, but to be an intrapreneur.
Hmm. I love that. And what I've also loved about your experiences, both that you have that time in the corporate world and outside as an entrepreneur, and that you've brought that together and now you are doing a little bit of both. So share a little bit more about your journey and, and how you came to create this concept of the Entrepreneur project.
Yeah. So. So I was in corporate for a really long time, grew my career, sales, marketing people, operations. Kind of figured out that journey and like a lot of people was starting to experience burnout, starting to be in a place where maybe I didn't feel as valued or things weren't meshing and I was unhappy.
Not only was I unhappy with what I was doing, but I was noticing my own traits, my own leadership style was being affected, and I wasn't showing up as the person I should be every day. So I did what a lot of us do, and I say s, I'm gonna go start my own business, right? So I left corporate to open a brick and mortar business.
While also doing my own consulting in, you know, what I was passionate about and what I was doing from an l and d and a people operations standpoint when I left corporate. And that was a fun journey. Learned all kinds of things. But I think most importantly was I still wasn't happy and I couldn't quite put my finger on what it.
And out of the blue, an opportunity arose to go back to corporate with an organization in a role that almost felt like it was built. For me, that took all of my years of experience in this weird place. I came from having been a salesperson and then having been a VP of people, brought it all together, even the industry into this like perfect role startup company.
Mm-hmm. Right. Getting ready to go. And so I decided to jump in and I went back to corporate. But part of that journey was saying, but I'm not gonna let go of this thing that I'm so passionate about on my own. And of course, you know, they agreed to allow me to do that and. So the Entrepreneur project and entrepreneurship was born, and what I, I really learned was having this, what some people call the, A side hustle, but a stream of fulfillment or a profitable passion, whatever it it is, right?
And this place to get this creative outlet and do what I wanna do with no, no rules and no boundaries around it. Really helped me show up and deal with the struggles of being a leader in corporate. Because no matter how great your company is, none of them are perfect and we're gonna have problems. So it created this balance in both places that allowed me to go, oh my gosh, this is what I'm meant to do.
This is what I'm meant to be. So, Wow, there's so much in there. And I think for right now, a lot of us are seeing manager, hearing leaders are hearing folks feeling not that fulfilled or questioning their purpose or saying, you know, should I leave this? I am not sure because I have these interests outside of work.
And, and, you know, I, I do like the, you know, security and stability of my corporate job, but as you say, the more your organization creates space for that, the more you can have the best of both worlds. And a lot of that has to do with trusting your employees, really, you know. Understanding that they're gonna have this life outside of work, whether they tell you about it or not.
And I think it's so important. A few things you shared, one that you advocated for yourself, going into the situation like, Hey, this is going to make me better at what I do, and it's also a non-negotiable, so I'm gonna have to be doing this. And by celebrating that your organization saw that this does make you a better leader and you are more loyal to that organization.
So it really is a win-win. And I think managers can also, and I know we'll talk about this a little bit too, managers listening, you can help your team members cultivate these interests and these passions. And I know that while I was at Google, I had the good fortune. Having managers that supported my interest in coaching and mentorship and in workshop development and, and things that I ended up really, really realizing were something that I ended up did want to do full-time, but while I was there, I could create so much benefit for the company by living my passions as part of my job.
No, absolutely. And. You know, part of that as a leader and, and really cultivating that and the benefits that you can have internally that you don't think about is part of something that I like to call leading through learning. And when I talk about leading through learning, it is about encouraging the act of learning.
For your people. So we train people, we teach people, and it's typically skills that are what we need for our company, for our bottom line. Right. For your job description. Yeah, all of this. But one thing we're not that great at all the time actually as humans, is the actual act of learning because we consume so much information, but consumption and development are two completely different things.
So the ability to learn means you've taken something. You've figured it out in your brain. You've got the skill and then you go back and you implement or you change and you get more from that skill than just the outward skill. So I encourage my team to go learn something else and, and I actually tie it to their performance reviews.
Right. So when we talk about about your goals, at the end of last year, when we set their goals for Q1 of this year, all of them had to go out and learn something that they didn't know how to. And then come back and, and do it and present it or create something. Wow. And it could be playing a musical instrument.
It could be learning how to knit, right? Yeah. It could be anything. But you went out and you learned something. And what they all find is through the act of learning, that thing that has nothing to do with their job. Now they have something that they all took from it that can apply to their job. Yes. And it's fun and we have something to talk about.
And it is crazy how you figure out these skill sets when you learn things right? Yeah. That you can turn around and apply. In your job or as a parent or as anything else, right? That you've got this skill or something that came out because you had to stretch yourself to learn something that isn't native to your strengths.
Yeah. So when I talk about leading through learning, that's what is, it's encouraging people to go out and do something that has nothing to do with work. Yeah. And, and go, go be great at it, but then come back and tell me about. Yeah, and, and like you say, it makes you better at your job because you've expanded that creativity, that innovation.
I think that's what I've found, that the more I was leaning to my interest and the more I was supporting my team members, the better they showed up. And so again, when we try to constrain that and hold that back, we're actually holding back that person's potential in their job. Yes. I wanna touch on one more thing that, you know, the more we're learning about Gen Z and what they're looking for, professional development and upskilling, that's top of mind.
In fact, I think there's a study from LinkedIn saying that, 76% of Gen Z sees upskilling as the key to their professional success. So this is top of mind. So this is also part of a talent attraction and retention strategy to focus on that, leading through learning, and to create space for learning and professional development.
It is, and it's one that I think you hear talk about and people know, but we don't do it enough. Or in corporate, in companies, we assume that upscaling development is again about this job. Yeah. Or this role or getting better at this and not about the whole person. And what we continually all know and find is that the skills that level someone up that.
Take our stock prices up that keep us in business, that gain profitability, that help us scale and grow are not the tactical skills so much. They're, they're the human skills. Right. What people refer to as soft skills, but they're actually the harder skills. Yes, exactly right. And so the development of your people as a whole human and, and giving them all of these skills is really what you should do.
And it's what they want. They wanna know that they don't have to go out. And try and figure this out on their own, that their company is investing in them and feels that value. It gives them that value. Yeah, absolutely. And for entrepreneurs and small business owners listening, you know, you work so hard to bring in talent.
You wanna, you know, it's, it's there's, you don't have a ton to invest in having a huge team. And so keeping people and having people really realize their full potential, it's even, you know, it's just as critical if not more. And so I think when you're really trying to operate lean, it might feel scary to create space for professional development, which is in the kind that Abbie talks about, which is outside of maybe the core.
But again, this will elevate your organization to think differently and be able to explore different areas. I mean, I think that's why, that's the power of, of having a small business is that you can sort of pivot easily. You're more agile. And so the more you develop in, in these interests in your teams, which are outside of the core job, the more you acknowledge that there's more going on in their lives.
The more loyal they are to you, the more excited they are about the work. Absolutely. I mean, it is a cycle that will keep you profitable. It's terrible to say cuz you want people. Be like it's the right thing to do, but at the end of the day, no matter how you feel, it's a business decision and it's the right business decision.
Yeah. And so if you think about that retention and the cost of attrition and the cost of all of that knowledge, just leaving your organization rather than keeping those people and building their skills and finding new places for them because they have all that tribal knowledge of the last six months, two years, five years.
And our organizations, we all believe our organizations are special and we're different and we're the best in our industry. And so when that knowledge of what we do and what makes us special walks out the door and you have to start over. It's such a loss and it sets you back. Yeah. So on that note, what do you see leaders getting wrong about their investments in learning and development and, and professional development?
So I think that it feels more like an afterthought or like this, this weird benefit. S you know, put a bunch of stuff in a, in an lms or we will, you know, send you through a one size fits all program and we all learn so differently and we all have such different strengths and skills that really being able to spend some time first to figure out what are our trends and what are the specific things we need to grow and invest in that.
Right. Yeah. And I think. That's one of the things that attracted me to you, honestly. Right? And looking at what you do in your programs and this idea that like, I'm not gonna go away and there's gonna be follow up. And I think that's the biggest mistakes that organization make is like, we're gonna give you development, we're gonna give you leadership development or personal development.
And then it's like, Good luck. Yeah. Right after one training, everything's fixed. Right, right. Yeah. Or it's so much that it's overwhelming. We're gonna focus on all of these things and say we offered it. But again, that's just consumption. Yeah. And if we don't say like, let's, like let's make a plan. Let's say this is a three year program and for the next six months we're just focusing on this one thing, this one aspect, and let's make sure they really get it and they change and it becomes habit.
And then let's build on it and let's follow up. I think that we too often just say like, we offer it and it's there. Yeah, it's just, it's just a lot and it's not really focused on developing each individual the way that they should be developed. Yeah, it's such a great point and I noticed that, you know, both consuming content in the, in the corporate world and now building it.
There's, I think there's a misconception that just having one session, one workshop's enough, and I think there is a lot of power in. You know, introducing a concept and I think there's a lot of benefit in, in having, you know, something that's there to, to, to start the conversation. But like you say, things like getting better at feedback or hard conversations or things that, you know, really make us uncomfortable, that we need to be practicing.
We need to be getting our own feedback around. We need to build our own muscles. These take a little bit longer too, to build that confidence in and so, You do have to continue to refine and, and support people over time if you really wanna see that change. But I do think it doesn't take years and years.
So that's the other piece is like, I think that with really understanding specifically where teams are getting stuck, you know, I think in some organizations feedback, Maybe there's no feedback. Maybe in some, you know, there's, there's cultural differences that are really coming up that make it difficult to have vbo conversations and others maybe feedback is there's just a lot of different kinds of personality types, whatever, and, and when you understand what exactly the context is, then you can create a really targeted strategy that'll have impact in a shorter period of.
Absolutely. And that's the key. It's being able to dig in and understand and target that and then you can make that impact and you can go and we have to continue to coach and train and move people through it. Yeah, just like, I think I learned this when I was in sales. You know, you think that once someone is good and knows how to sell, they know how to sell, right?
But there is billions of dollars in sales training that. Because we do get complacent, because markets change, right? Products change. Things change. We keep getting rejected or told no. And so as salespeople, we get complacent and we let that get in our heads, and so we need this constant retraining. It's the same thing as leaders, right?
Yeah. You can be a really great leader, but you still need to be reminded or you still get complacent or, I mean, just for gosh sakes, look at the last several years we have gone through things we have never been through before from pandemics and now, you know, really embracing remote work or do we go back to work and, and what people are going through and, and the, the massive generat.
Changes I think for leaders is over the last 10 to 20 years, one of the biggest things I think we had this time where generation after generation we were the same, and so you could manage the same and do the same things. And now from like Gen X to millennial to Gen Z, there's just like, Massive expectation changes.
So even the best of us need to keep refining those skills and realizing that maybe we're getting complacent or we're letting things get in our head and, and we gotta keep working on it. Yeah. And that point's so important because this is what I talk about on the show and in my training and development and my programs, that these are not just for entry level managers.
I mean, these are. The things that we should all be thinking about at the start. But a lot of the work that you do and that I do, is for seasoned managers. Managers that are managing managers leadership level, like, you know, because as you call out, these are things everybody is going through, especially with all of the change.
So even if you were the best manager ever, or the best C-suite leader ever until three years ago, and like the rug got pulled out from under you, now we're having to deal with all sorts of things we never had to. And the more self-aware we are in saying, Hey, I have more to. I am feeling uncomfortable. I am realizing, yeah, I need to sort of dive into this.
How do I have a conversation with someone about safety, with return to office and all these things that, you know, maybe I've never thought about. Flexibility is something that means different things to everybody. How do you manage a distributed team and, uh, you know, across different time zones? How do you build the right structures to ensure people are included?
How do you manage a diverse team to make sure everyone's perspectives are included? There's so many things that, as you say, for a long period of time, Maybe people didn't have to think about, probably they should have always been thinking about these things. Definitely should have been, I should say. But now they're in the forefront.
So as conversations like wellbeing, flexibility, burnout, mental health, are in the conversation every day in the workplace. Leaders at every level of seniority have to be building the skills to, to talk about them and to support people. I agree. It's hard for people, it's hard to change, it's hard to evolve, but we have to talk about it and we have to realize it, and we have to keep people focused.
And I think that what you just said too, the idea is maybe we should have been thinking about it and that's, you know, that's being adaptable. So I'm working on something right now where we're talking about how do we become more adaptable? How do we build adaptability and. And the reality is, is I start thinking about it.
There's no super quick fix to that either. Yeah, but it is the act of learning, right? That's how you adapt is when stuff like this happens. We actually learn from it, and now we start thinking, okay, we're here now we're doing what we're doing. What else could happen? What do we need to plan for, right? We all learn how to sail ships and calm waters and calm skies and, and it's fine.
And so we think we're sailors until a hurricane hits and it's a whole different skillset. So how are we training for what could happen in the future? How are we learning from the past? And then that's how the moment something happens, we. Because we have this skillset, this learning, we're pulling from our past, especially as leaders, right?
So that we can help our people and give them skills on the flight and maneuver. But if we haven't learned from what happened, if we aren't learning as things are going on, Then we can't adapt in the future and we can't be prepared for the future. Wow. So important. And I, and I think this is now for managers that are hiring, this is a skill to be looking for, right?
Is that, you know, do you have a learning mindset? It's part of a growth mindset and, and, and, and potentially asking folks questions about what's a, what's a hard situation you learn from as opposed to what's your biggest weakness? You know, think about, think about the power you'd have. Standing if folks have that mindset, because as you call out, adaptability is such an important skill, but it's, it's a little bit abstract.
It's very hard to ask somebody, you know, how do you demonstrate adaptability or show me adaptability. But, but I think really positioning and in this learning mindset in this. Continual, you know, iterative place. I, I just love that so much. Yeah. You have to keep training, like, to me, that I do believe it's given me, I dunno what the word is, like a leg up.
Right. From a leadership standpoint, because it's just, it's constantly, not only am I learning, but I'm spending so much of my time. Coaching, training, you know, doing these things with my own team that we're just, we're just constantly evolving together. And, and you still have to do, you still have to manage.
Right? And you still have to give feedback. And we still, but all of that is through this lens of we're gonna learn from it, we're gonna get better. And even if learning from it means we've decided, and what we've learned together is that we're not a good fit anymore. Yeah, yeah. Right. But it, it is like, it's allowed.
To grow exponentially and have such a different lens because I'm less focused on like, how do I, how do I manage, right? Because I've already being in an L and D world and doing this for a living with people on all of their skill sets, you know, at a, at a large level and an organization I've built, like you said, the learning mindset.
And so I'm able to push that into my leadership and I think it's really helped me build better relationships and give more to my. Yeah. And one thing that's so powerful, I think about your role right now is it reports right into the ceo. I mean, this is the demonstration of the importance that he sees and your company sees on learning development.
Absolutely. And it is, and it's, it's a shift. It's a mindset at the top, and it's working with your senior leaders, with your top leadership. However, you need to push that up wherever you are. That learning it is part of the business strategy, right? It is not this like ancillary thing that. Do as a benefit to our employees or to make sure they're trained to do this specific skill.
But we understand that learning and development as an organization is actually going to drive our business, help our bottom line. And so it needs to be a part of the strategic team, you know, and have a voice as we're making decisions with, okay, this is a great decision. This is a great way to. What don't our people know?
What aren't we ready for, and how do we get them ready before we. Yeah. And so what are some of the ways that you, you get that into that executive level conversation? It sounds like talking about the, the strategic opportunity there. Sounds like talking about the importance of, you know, being, having a leg up, you mentioned what are some other things that folks that wanted to advocate for more opportunities in learning development, bring in more trainings, bring in more development opportunities to their teams?
What might they say to, to sort of articulate the importance of that? I think it's, it's the, you know, you're always focused on the, the human side, right? Mm-hmm. And the ability for these projects to come to life. Because if you have a great idea, if you see something you're gonna do, if our people aren't able to execute on it, Right.
I mean, AI's come pretty far, but we still, we still need people. If they're not able to execute on it, the best ideas are gonna fail. And number one, pay attention to that. So if you have data or you're able to say, listen, we tried to implement this, and it's not that the idea wasn't great, it's. We didn't execute properly and we didn't execute because our people weren't trained and ready to execute.
We didn't think through all of the things that, you know, as much as we could that came up. We didn't give them the skills we needed. And so all the time and effort that was put into that, you know, it was a waste and, and it's, the idea is still good, but then you have to go back and do it again. You have to change the training.
So I think if you've, you've experienced that and you know, Bring those things to the conversations in the forefront. And then when you are in the room, I was actually yesterday part of a meeting about what was like flow of how things happen and where they're gonna land and like what we're gonna do with, with these customers and those customers.
And I was able to kind of. Start thinking through, well, what are the different skills we're gonna need to talk to those customers differently and do our people have them today? And it is the ability, I think the, the person who's looking at it from that lens has the ability to bring people back to change management, right?
Yes. Yeah. To say, okay, this is great. And all of them are gonna go over and build it, and then they're gonna say, it's built and it's done, and you're gonna wanna implement. Is it gonna fail? How do you know if it failed because it didn't work or if it failed because our people weren't trained? And it's, it's just telling people that because no one hears that, you know, no executive hears that and goes.
Eh, yeah. Yeah. Let's, they're, they're like, yes, you're right. And, and so we build the development and the learning into the product plan, right? Yeah. Like it has to be part of the plan to execute, and you have to get the time into it, but it's just, it's just continually saying it, and then you just gotta prove it out, right?
Yeah. You gotta be able to show the, the level your people were at and the skills that you built were a huge part of the. Yes. Yeah. It's so awesome cuz you're, you're putting words to a lot of what I, I had tried to communicate along the way in, in the corporate world, working on team operations. I would always say, well, if work's not getting done, if we're missing deadlines, it's not because people don't have, you know, they don't have the skills or they don't know how to do their jobs.
It's, there's a different disconnect. It's in the how we're doing the work and, and I kept bringing, and, and I think that's why now my focus with teams. Is the, how is these communication, you know, things that are going wrong, communication breakdowns, is decision making clear? Do we understand priorities and all of that done through a lens of trainings and how to establish norms, because that's what prevents the work from getting done.
It's, it's really not like, you know that you have the wrong people. You haven't actually developed them in the right way. Absolutely. And you could have the right people. And you have people with potential. Yeah. But again, if we're not developing them and we're not giving them the skills, that's when we come to these weird places, you know, where talent gets disengaged.
Yeah. And we lose people that if we had invested, if we had developed them, or if we had realized those certain skills and said, Hey, they may be better over here. Mm-hmm. And so maybe they don't know how to do this, but they have all the other things we need them to have, plus this knowledge in their head of our organization and the loyalty and the drive and the love, then let's train them.
On these things, let's take a little time and move them. And you would be amazed to see how an employee blossoms and brings more value than they were bringing before because now they're in the right place. Yeah. But we have to be willing to, number one, recognize that, and then number two, put the time and effort into developing them and then putting 'em in the right place.
Yes, absolutely. And especially I talk a lot about the importance of recognition and, and appreciation and helping people find career opportunities. And part of that is supporting them when they get there. Like, you know, if you're promoting someone to a manager position because they were a great individual contributor, that's awesome, that your finest opportunity and they're gonna need support.
And so that, you know, not just throwing folks into new opportunities without creating all of the conditions for them to be success. Yeah, and I would say that's one of the biggest mistakes when you talk about leaders who lead leaders, it absolutely is one of the biggest mistakes we make. We promote people because of their skill in the thing that they're doing, because they're really good at it.
And then we think after the fact, Maybe we'll fig, you know, they'll, they'll magically be leaders or we'll figure that out later instead of identifying potential developing leadership skills, right? But then all of a sudden we say, okay, we promoted you in a leader and now you're, you're failing. And you were like, my, my best person.
And it's because you say we didn't give 'em support after that. We thought that they were, that what came with the title was this osmosis of skillset. And they're gonna be really good at. And they're, they're not, all of a sudden things start to fall apart. And it's because they don't have the leadership skills, and it's because we're not giving them continued support and we're not continuing to performance manage the leaders around leadership.
Mm-hmm. And then, and then we lose people, right? So you have to make that part of your plan. If you are gonna promote someone, then you need to have a plan and time blocking and check-ins that are not as focused on the results of the department or whatever it is they're trying to do, but on that person and their development as a.
Yes, absolutely. And talking with that person about this plan saying, Hey, this, you know, in this promotion, here's how I'll support you. Here's what, what I'm expecting. You know, we talk a lot about clear expectations, showing someone what that path is and then, and so that they can be accountable and they can step up as an owner.
Absolutely. Well, this has been such a fun conversation. Oh my God. I know. We can talk about this literally all day. I know. How about anything that you're working on that you're excited to share with our. Yeah. Lots of things. So I'm getting ready to launch an online learning experience. I, I don't even know what to call it, right?
I look at it and I'm like, people need this, but I don't know what to call it right through the Intrapreneur project. So I, I host my retreats that I do twice a year. Which is more of this intimate mentor learning experience where I bring people like you in for entrepreneurs to learn from and grow their skills.
But what I'm learning is that, you know, people want what they want, when they want it. Mm-hmm. And so asynchronous learning is also really important and, and allowing people to come in and get some skills in a place that feels safe and get those, like you said, those conversation starters so that they can then go find people to get help.
I'm developing an an online on demand program where I've got all kinds of topics and courses that you can take. You can get live coaching feedback and then bringing in other coaches and other experts, you know, to put learning in there. So I'm really excited about getting all of that done and giving people a place to go that has a specific skill that they might need when they.
Right that they can work on and then they come back and work on something else. So it's got a, a variety. So I'm really excited to get that launched and put that out there to, to help people, whether you're an entrepreneur, you're an employee, or you're an entrepreneur. Yeah. Well, that's so awesome, and I think you also had a workplace Happiness free resource.
I'd love to talk a little bit about that. I do. So this is, it's a workbook really. You know, it's several pages, but instead of just something to read, cuz I'm an l and d person, it's something to learn and do. Right? You gotta hold yourself accountable, you gotta gotta do the work. And it is, it's a guide to, to having more joy in your job, to workplace happiness because that is the other massive mindset change that I went through when I came back to corporate America is that workplace happiness.
There is a lot that we should do as organiz. But then there is this piece of it that's within your control, right? Yeah. You have to own your culture, you have to own your happiness. And what we don't know how to do is how to go find that and how to go cultivate that. So these are a lot of tips and the work to do so that you can have more workplace happiness, cuz we're not all able to just quit our jobs and go do our own thing.
And some of us just don't even want to. Right. But we all deserve to be happy. So it's a great resource. It'll give you some great idea. To either go find more joy in your job or to go outside of your job to find the joy so that you can bring that joy back into the workplace because you have that extra se stream of fulfillment.
I love that. I'm gonna fill that out, so I'll put that in the show notes and I will also be completing that workbook. Any last words of encouragement you wanna share with the audience before we wrap? Absolutely. I think two things, especially as. One of my personal mantras is what? You're not changing.
You're choosing, and it's being able to look in the mirror and realize and just own it. It's self-accountability, right? That if I'm not changing this right now, then I need to realize I'm choosing it and it's okay. Even if it's a place I'm not happy, it's okay because maybe this is just what I need to do in my life right now.
But rather than continuing to blame all of these other factors, just kind of own the fact that. I'm choosing this, I'm choosing to be here right now, and I need to just own that and work through it. So it, it's something that I continually remind myself when I get into a negative place. I have to go, Hey Abbie, if you're not willing to change and change socks, right?
Then you do realize you are choosing this. Nobody's making you be in this space. And on that same note, from a leadership standpoint, If you are struggling with your team, if you're not seeing results, if you're trying to figure out what's going on, so often we dig into where our people are going wrong, and what I want people to do every once in a while is think is the problem right now that my people aren't doing their job or that I'm not doing mine.
Because sometimes as a leader, it's what we're not doing. That's causing those negative results and we typically don't wanna look inward and fix that. So two self-accountability things to say to yourself and keep in mind that I think will keep you moving on on the right path to joy in your job and entrepreneurship and growth mindset as a leader.
Thank you so much. What an amazing place to end. Thank you so much for being on the show and just love this conversation. Me too. Thank you, Lia.
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That's all I have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Managing Made Simple Podcast where my goal is to demystify the job of people management so that together we can make the workplace somewhere everyone can thrive.
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