How to hire the right way and build a team that actually sticks around

Today, I want to share kind of four things to think through and really make sure you’ve figured out that are going to help any recruiter that you find be able to find that right person so that they’re not just throwing darts at the wall and you’re like, I’ll know it when I see it. Because trust me, because I am friends with a lot of these folks on the receiving end, it’s really hard to deliver on finding you that great person when you haven’t totally figured out what you want.

Welcome to the Managing Made Simple Podcast, where you get a masterclass in managing your team with ease in 15 minutes or less. I’m Leah Garvin, your host and team operations consultant. Through this show and my programs with small businesses and corporate teams, I condense a decade of experience driving team operations in some of the most influential companies in tech into strategies to save you time, money, and most of all, stress. Doesn’t matter if you’re a business owner who realized that running a team isn’t as easy as you thought it would be.

Are a new manager learning the ropes or a seasoned manager ready to up their game? Everyone is welcome to hang out with Managing Made Simple. From conflicts to feedback to delegating and more, we leave no stone unturned when it comes to what makes us love managing, kind of hate it, and everything in between. Let’s go. Welcome back to the show. Today I was at the gym and one of the managers, the trainers came up to me and she said, hey, I have a question.

I’m an avid listener of your show and I want to understand how to hire well. And this is a question I get all the time. And I have tons of friends out there that are actually recruiters. And I would recommend if you are hiring for executive roles, C-suite, and really critical roles for your team, that it’s awesome to enlist the support of an expert to bring in a recruiter. So that’s what I would say first and foremost.

And I will give some shout outs to Jackie Coke, one of my business besties and Megan Howell, who are fantastic recruiters. I will include their information in the show notes. And I would recommend so to help find that person. You are going to set this recruiter up for success if you do a number of these things that I’m going to share here around really the mindset around hiring, the operational things to think through, and then how to make sure you are setting them up for success when they join the team.

So today I want to share kind of four things to think through and really make sure you figured out that are going to help any recruiter that you find be able to find that right person so that they’re not just throwing darts at the wall and you’re like, I’ll know it when I see it. Because trust me, because I am friends with a lot of these folks on the receiving end, it’s really hard to deliver on finding you that great person when you haven’t totally figured out what you want.

So that is step number one. In order to hire well, you really have to know what you want. And that comes down to things really, what role are you hiring for? What is that job description? What makes someone a good fit? What are the things that you want them to start doing and maybe build into over time? So I look at this as kind of like a job description and also a well defined role and maybe even maybe bonus points, extra credit.

If you have a sense of your org chart, like where is this going? Is there advancement for this person? What is the step after this role? What is the career path? Because those kinds of questions are going to come up. And especially if it is someone you’re hiring full time that you want to be in your team or in your company for a number of years, you got to be ready to answer the question on what’s the career growth, because that person is going to want to know it.

Okay, so first and foremost, knowing what you want is critical. Now, it’s also about knowing how will you know when someone is a fit. And that comes down to values. What are your team values? What are the non negotiables? What are some of the behavioral characteristics that folks have to embody? Now, I don’t mean to introduce a bunch of biased, like, like me sort of characteristics that someone has to be. I’m talking about what are the qualities?

Like do you believe in community? Are you about customer first? Are you about integrity about problem solving? I know I’m saying a bunch of values buzzwords. But when you think about what these mean for you, now you can figure out how to tease those out when you’re having a conversation with a potential candidate. And that comes into the kinds of questions we ask in an interview. Now, how would you assess the general purpose word integrity or loyalty, not that I suggest making values that are just like single word, you know, aspirational words, I think having statements or actually kind of phrases or even examples is really powerful.

But if you say, you know, integrity, our definition of that is when we say we’re going to do something, we do it. That means internally how we operate as a team, and how we deliver to our clients. Okay, that is your definition of integrity for your company. Well, how do you assess for that? This comes down to the questions that you ask in an interview. And instead of just asking skills related questions, or sometimes you run through, like, you know, only hey, shadow me in this job, make sure that you’re going through the motions.

Do you know how to use this system? Do you know how to use this tool? Do you know how to get through this coding exam? Do you know how to administer this service? Like for gyms, do you know how to do a great class? Do you know how to XYZ writing sample, whatever, a lot of times we get folks that are great at the skill. But when it comes to some of these qualities that we really want folks to embody, like being a proactive problem solver, like being open to feedback, like really deeply following through on a commitment, like showing up and rolling up your sleeves and just being okay to roll with it, no matter what adaptability, right, when it comes down to these things, we realize, oh, I didn’t really assess for that, because I didn’t even know what to ask.

So when this, when this coach came up to me at the gym, and she asked, like, how do I know how to hire? How do I know how to not make a mistake when I hire someone or, or not to ask the wrong questions? I said, you know, you got to know what you’re looking for in terms of what does success look like in this company? Okay. And so she said, well, you know, it means that they’re open to feedback, because, you know, everyone’s coaching style is different at this gym, you know, we really want to make sure folks feel welcome and excited, and they’re coming back and they’re signing up for classes.

So we really want to create that sense of community. We also want our coaches and our trainers to be, you know, bringing in business not from a sales perspective, but by creating an environment that make, you know, clients and participants in class participants want to come back, right, we want to have that we want to make sure that we’re running a business that everybody feels bought into. And everybody’s helping bring in new members. Okay, totally fair.

So we want someone to have a bit of an entrepreneurial mindset. Great. We want them to be adaptable, be flexible. Sometimes you have to pitch in and, you know, cover a shift last minute, because we have a class schedule. And we can’t have people showing up for classes, if a teacher calls in sick, we need to be able to cover for each other and pitch in. Okay. So those are three really specific things that she needed.

Now, how do you ask that without saying, are you able to cover a shift when someone calls out? Someone’s like, yeah, but do they really mean it? Are you open to feedback? Well, sure, I am. Right? Do they really mean it? This is when we come down to thinking about what are some of these character assessment qualities that we can really figure out that we’re getting these criteria. And again, it doesn’t mean answering it well doesn’t mean it’s exactly how you would answer it.

We do not want companies comprised of people that are exactly like us, because that that prevents innovation, it stifles creativity, it actually, even if we’re having a little bit of growing, growing pains, figuring out how to get people to work well together, that is been proven over and over and over diverse teams build better results. Right? So we always want to have people coming from all different backgrounds and perspectives. But we also, and not but, and we also want to make sure these kind of fundamental attributes, these behaviors are showing up that we know are things that are non-negotiables.

Did you know that I do team workshops on all of the stuff that I talk about on this show with large companies like Google, and also with startups and small businesses like marketing agencies, law firms, and med spas, whether it’s making those feedback conversations a little less awkward, how to support your team through all of the change and uncertainty making us all well, a little on edge right now, or delegating to empower your team to step up as owners.

I come into your teams and give you the tools you need to wrestle with all this tough stuff and feel like you’ve got it handled. Reach out at hello at leahgarvin.com or pass my info along to the decision maker in your company and let’s make all this team stuff easier and a lot more fun. So let’s say that feedback question, right? We ask our teams, um, you know, are you open to feedback? And they say, why?

Yes, I am open to feedback. Next question. That’s not going to get you the answer you need. Of course not. Right? So instead of just asking that question, and these, I’m just going to say right now, the questions I’m going to share, you can ask for any type of employee. And this is where I think we get really stuck on, well, for this kind of role, I need these questions and for this, you probably could have like 50 to 80% of your questions be the same because you’re wanting people that are great members of this company.

You have the resume, you have maybe a skill drill or something like that to assess are they actually have the competencies in the role, but questions around feedback or on adaptability around problem solving, all those are, we want to see that in most of our team members. Right? If not all of them. So how do we assess feedback? Well, a question as simple as share a time when you got some difficult feedback that maybe was hard to hear at first, but you actioned, you know, what was that and how did you work through that?

Wow. Like you listening to that? I don’t know. I get a little bit like, and then in the punch of the gut, like, I don’t, it’s hard to think of that one, but we want someone to be able to think of that. We want someone to share, like, Hey, um, I’ve managed folks in the past. I’ve gotten feedback over time that I was a little bit too hands-on, you know, I was called a micromanager and it was hard to hear because I was doing that because I really wanted my team to be successful, but what I learned through the feedback was I was actually getting in their way of being successful.

And so over the last few years, I’ve really worked hard to recognize it, to actually solicit feedback, more feedback from my team to ask them, Hey, am I overstepping? Please let me know so that I can make sure to give them the support they need and set the right expectations, but also not micromanage. Wow. What a fricking killer answer to that question. I literally thought of that on the spot just now, literally. Okay. So I can answer that one.

Um, that is an answer that we will be awesome and we’d be super excited to hear from any, any role. Okay. Same thing with proactive problem solving, right? This is one, I know I’ve done an episode on this. How do we get our team members to step up proactively? When should we make this into a policy? No, I’ve said we should not, we should create this as a norm. Now how do we assess if someone has this characteristic, ask a question, not are you a proactive problem solver?

Why? Yes, I am, sir. Moving right along. No, we say, Hey, um, share some examples of when, um, you saw something that you felt like really needed to be fixed in the team and off the bat, you weren’t really sure what to do about it. You know, what was your approach to that? Okay. Interesting question. So someone might say something like, um, so I was working in a, um, uh, marketing and sales or marketing role. Okay.

You know, I’m not a marketing person. Let’s just see if I can do this. Cause I said I could make these up on the spot. So I was in a, I was in a marketing role and, um, our, um, and, and we were doing quite a bit of reporting for our clients and we started to find out that, um, one of the big investments we had made in a certain area that actually, you know, the client had spent a lot of money on, maybe it was a social campaign or ads or something like that really wasn’t working.

And, um, we were really nervous about going back to the client because we had been pretty confident in this approach. Um, but the data was showing us and it was our responsibility to share with the client. And so I thought, you know, I, I had the whole team that was working on it. And first I had to start with the team and we said, well, we can’t go back to this client without a plan. Okay. We cannot go back and say this didn’t work.

And we’re going to go back to the drawing board. We’ve got to go back to the client and say, Hey, here’s what we learned. We caught it early. Um, we understand we were really, really, um, really kind of almost full certainty on this one. And some of our projections didn’t land. Here’s how we’re leveraging this learning for the future. Here’s how we’re going to be able to use some of this in another space. And here is our plan to be able to recoup some of the costs and to really get you in the right direction.

Based on the data, our signals are saying this, we’re going to look at it for a little bit of a shorter time horizon next time. And then we’re going to reassess from there. So that’s an example of how I kind of made sure that we came with a plan and a solution before we went back to the client, got the whole team on board, got leadership’s approval on the plan. And then we went back to the client and they, yeah, they were frustrated at first, but they said, okay, you know, you seem so solid about the, the plan B that we’re bought in.

So now that is an example of how that person communicates. They’re not blaming, they’re not pointing fingers, they’re not sharing a story where like they’re resolving themselves responsibility. They took responsibility, they talked about proactive problem solving, and they’re demonstrating they have that capacity. Okay. So these are the ways we can suss out things that we find important without asking yes or no questions. And some of the keys here, I’ll give you some kind of like quick tips are like, give me an example of when you had to do this.

What challenges came up and what you did, you know what I mean? Now it’s really especially important if you’re talking with someone, a candidate, a potential, even a coffee chat, or especially an interview, if they’re talking in generalities, or they’re not giving specific examples, it’s okay to say, you know, I’d love to hear more about your specific role in this, or what you specifically responsible for, just so I can kind of understand your approach. And, you know, what was the team versus what was you?

Sometimes we come out of an interview, and we’re like, I don’t know what the hell that person did versus their team. And we, we think, well, I’m going to skip that person, because it doesn’t seem like they did the stuff themselves. In fact, a lot of people get stuck saying we when it was actually them. I’ve used so many air quotes in this, if you’re watching the video, I apologize. A lot of us, I’m doing it right, use the royal we.

And we say we because we worked with a team, and we’re talking about our own contributions. This is a challenge that a lot of folks have. I coach people on this all the time, how to talk about your impact in terms of I because you did that stuff. Okay, so this is a trap a lot of people fall into. And I would say, not to assume they didn’t do the work just because they’re saying we, you can even jump in and say, hey, just so I make sure I can really kind of understand the team dynamic.

You mentioned we, is this a team effort? Is it you? Go ahead and ask if it’s unclear. Do not assume and write that person off because I do it. I say we all the time. It’s just me right here in this podcast room. I say we were talking to some of the gym, it was me, it was just me with the coach. Anyway, so you know, and ask clarifying questions, give that person a shot. Now the last thing I’m going to say, I’ve said it before.

If we want to hire great people, we have to pay them competitive salaries, pay hourly wages, whatever, whatever we’re paying people. It’s gotta be competitive. Do not ask me how to hire well, but also pay people as little as possible and have them be super committed and bought in and helping you grow your business is helping you reach your profitability goals while also paying them as little as possible. Don’t say that because we get what we pay for.

And I’m going to keep saying this because stuff is expensive. Everybody is struggling. I know that you are also in there trying to do more with less, trying to keep the lights on, trying to build this business and your next great team member, the person that would have taken you to the next level is going to say no to a position in your company very highly with a highly likelihood if you are offering them something that is not going to help them live the sustainable life that they want to have.

I’m not saying that we, we, you know, offer people, you know, 10 times better than the next person to try to get someone. I think these kind of inflated salaries that took place, especially in the tech industry, really, you know, created some, some other issues, uh, where there was a lot of inequity across roles, but I’m saying looking at salary ranges, which you can find on LinkedIn and other places, Glassdoor, and really sussing out, you know, based on the title, based on the experience, based on what I’m asking this person to be responsible for, are they running a team or not?

Are they in kind of an executive capacity or not? What does this, what is a competitive wage that’s going to get them to be excited about working here? Because that is how you’re going to kind of wrap a bow on this, finding the right folks, having a strategy on what you want, what are the values you want them to uphold? What are the kinds of questions you can ask? How can you tease this out from the behavioral capacities?

And then how can you pay someone well so that that awesome person that you want, that you found that you spent so much time recruiting, isn’t also still looking for another job because they feel like they’re going to do this job for three months till they find something better because nothing is more expensive than having to hire again and again and again to have a revolving door of talent. Nothing is more expensive than that. I think it costs one and a half times someone’s salary for like a manager or kind of more senior level roles.

I think it costs some other amount for, um, for hourly, like a significant amount, thousands of dollars, tens of thousands, maybe a hundred thousands of dollars to keep rehiring. So what you’re going to have is you’re going to be paying someone less, having to have a revolving door of talent, wondering why no one wants to stay when the answer was, if you had just made it a little bit more competitive, incentivize people, then you’d have one person that you fought so hard to find and recruit and onboard and train that is here to stay.

So that is what I got, how to hire great people. Again, I, I encourage you to use a recruiter. If it makes sense for you, if you have the budget, they are fantastic, phenomenal people at finding the exact kind of person you need, but you can’t get that person started if you don’t know what the hell you want, right? So you’ve got to be ready to pay for great talent. You’ve got to be ready to be able to tell that recruiter, you know, Hey, here’s what I’m looking for.

Here’s what a great fit is on my team. Um, here’s some of the, here’s some of the great reasons to join my company because that recruiter is going to have to sell your company too, right? And when we have set them up for success, they set us up for success. All right, good luck out there. See you next time. That’s all I have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Managing Made Simple podcast, where my goal is to demystify the job of people management so that together we can make the workplace somewhere everyone can thrive.

With that said, let’s spread the word. If you love this episode, please pass it along to someone who might benefit from it. See you next time.