How knowing your team members makes you a better leader

Support could look like allowing them to work three days, virtually, as opposed to two. Because maybe they need support with childcare. And… You won’t know they need support with childcare unless you have the conversation with them and that’s very simple and that could make a difference complete difference. Welcome to the managing made simple podcast where I bring a decade of experience working in some of the most Influential companies in tech to help you navigate the ins and outs of being a people manager from conflicts to feedback to delegating and more We will leave no stone unturned when it comes to what makes us love managing, kind of hate it, and everything in between.

Doesn’t matter if you’re a new manager looking for some tips, or a seasoned manager looking to up their game, everyone is welcome to hang out with Managing Made Simple. Let’s go. I know you’re here because you want to be a better manager, but I also know it’s often easier said than done. That’s why I put together a scorecard of 20 things that you can do this month and every month To show up better for your team as a manager from positive feedback to recognition to honoring those working norms that we know we got to do, but sometimes forget this scorecard serves as a checklist and accountability buddy to remind you of all those things you got to do to be a great manager.

Download your copy today at LiaGarvin.com/scorecard. Welcome back to the show today. I am so excited to have Vashti Boyce with me. Vashti is the founder and CEO of Wild Iris Consulting. They are a business consultant who leans into their education, vocational experiences, and integrative values as they work with individuals and organizations, illuminating how we can better relate to and work with one another in a way that promotes racial equality and social justice. Vashti and I met a few years ago through a mutual friend in the coaching space, and I have been a huge, huge fan of their work ever since.

I’m so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here. Awesome. Well, so I know a little bit about, you know, you, you had worked in, you know, the healthcare space before you became a business owner and consultant. And I only like to ask people, you know, based on the time before life as your own boss, who did you learn the most from? Some of your.

Best manager or some of the worst ones and why? Yeah, so I’ve been thinking about this one. So my best was a woman named Beth Wong. I will never forget her name, when she was my supervisor at one of my hardest, most demanding jobs I’ve ever had. It was community-based, non-profit behavioral health, and foster care diversion services. So she was kind intuitive. She’s the kind of person that would ask you how you’re feeling. On the days where if someone truly wanted to know how you were feeling, you would break down.

Yeah. Because the work was hard. Definitively was not paid enough, but it was still very important. And she treated us like valuable people doing important work. And with people’s lives literally being in our hands, she just definitely brought that care and concern and that, like, reminder that we’re not doing it alone. And she also did the work before. So she knew when we said, I can’t do. She was like, no, I know you can’t, you know, um, and definitely helped us problem solve.

But I think the biggest thing was that she saw us as people and she got to know us. We weren’t best friends, but she still got to know us as individual people doing this really hard work that she had also done before. Yeah, I love that. And I mean, right now where so many folks are feeling disconnected from their work or reevaluating their sense of purpose or, you know, feeling all the uncertainty. This, this act of getting to know people as a whole person and supporting them in their career even beyond the job they have now.

Yeah. Like this is such a huge thing that creates resilience. I love that. Yeah. It’s so important. And I feel like when I talk to clients, when I have facilitation trainings, it all boils down to knowing the people that either work for you or work with you. Yeah. Who’d have thought? Who’d have thought? I mean, a lot of the stuff I talk about is simple stuff, right? Talking to people, caring, you know, paying attention, but it goes such a long way.

And, and again, I love that example because You know, even in, like you said, the hardest situations in, you know, where you’re dealing with, you know, lives are at stake. This is the same as if you’re working in a customer service, you know, you know, at like Radio Shack, which they don’t have anymore, but And I think that if it can be done in that space where, again, people’s lives are literally on the line, then it could be done in a space where they’re not.

Yeah, yeah. You know, if you can find space in a 24 7 program, then you can find one. You know, in finance and tech, it can work. Absolutely. Well, building on that, you know, you have this deep experience in the clinical space and now as a consultant, you, you support teams from all different industries. I’m curious, you know, what’s something that you learned from working in healthcare that, that you’ve brought into working with other industries, or that’s really…

been something that you feel like people should think about that maybe you developed in the healthcare space? The children are our future. Yeah. But more, I think more, more solidly, what I bring is kind of my knowledge of, um, adverse childhood experiences, also called ACEs, and social determinants of health, right? And these are very large, broad concepts, but the short of it is. Um, adverse childhood experiences are things that are traumatic, that impact how we show up in the world, right?

So, abuse, poverty, hunger, those sorts of things, domestic violence, and then social determinants of health are also similarly related. Um, it’s access to health care, access to quality health care, education, things like that. So, ACEs and social determinants of health impact how we show up in the world, and when you really look at the things that negatively impact, these. It’s almost exclusively linked to patriarchy, misogyny, white supremacy, capitalism, scarcity mindset, etc, etc. And so what I’ve brought is kind of understanding how these structures impact everyone in the workplace, right?

We’ve all been impacted in one shape or form, some of us more than others, by a lot of these kind of like social structures. And regardless of the industry, People have had these experiences, and that’s what they’re coming in with. And really thinking about the things that have happened to people before are going to impact how they show up today, which is going to impact how they show up, you know, in the future. And really getting folks to understand, like, specifically if we’re talking about diversity at all, we have to understand how these things play out in our fields, because they do.

They’re going to look different, but nothing is untouched by these structures. I mean, like, we’re learning now about how, like, AI is kind of racist. Well… It’s embedded in the ways in which the people who worked in AI, the examples that we use in AI, how that’s all part of, again, all of those isms, all of those social structures. And so I think another thing that I bring in is something really popular in therapy, especially group therapy, is like, you got to name it to tame it.

And so, with each organization, pulling out what is the thing that is hampering the growth. What is the thing that is creating exclusion as opposed to inclusion? Naming it, and like, getting real bold and brave about saying, Okay, yeah, we are a little patriarchal in this organization. Or, yeah, we can see there’s misogyny kind of rolling through these teams, and being able to name it, so that you can then figure out how to fix it. A lot of things.

bubble up because we don’t want to talk about it. Yeah, which is the worst, which is the worst. And so, I mean, but I think like you say that’s people’s default because they worry they’re going to be uncomfortable. So what are, I mean, I love the strategy name entertainment. What are things that you say to teams to kind of break that fear down? Yeah. I mean, usually I start with the leaders, right, and they’re the ones that, you know, have the responsibility, and I mean managers, not leaders, because those are two separate categories, but with the managers about getting them first comfortable with using the platform.

These words for understanding these topics, right? If your manager is not talking about it, you’re not going to talk about it. So it definitely starts with showing the folks who are in charge how to start to have these conversations, how to pick it out, or excuse me, to how to identify it in themselves and in their teams and their organizations as a whole and really start there with the practice. Excuse me, one example I give is, you know, you’re not going to sit on the couch for six weeks and then decide you’re going to run a marathon, right?

So you want to do bit by bit. And so that’s what I do with a lot of leaders is we start and we start with basic definitions. This is what racism is. This is what patriarchy is. This is what white supremacy and the tenets of it are and get comfortable with. these words, then get comfortable with the terms and concepts, and then figure out how we can identify these terms and concepts in our work. And it’s a long, it’s a long journey, because I mean some people don’t even like to say the word racism, because that makes them uncomfortable.

And it is what it is, and I won’t shame anyone for how they feel. And if you want to do this work, and you want to really invest in the people that you’re working with, It’s going to be something that you’re going to have to discuss. Right. And I mean, you being uncomfortable, it doesn’t mean it’s not present and it doesn’t mean it’s not hurting other people. So I think, like you say, as managers, you’re in this role leaders.

I know you mentioned it’s a different category, but especially leaders, anybody, especially everybody. Yes. We, it’s our responsibility to be talking about these things, to be doing our own personal work on it. And I mean, you mentioned. Earlier about AI, I think one of the things I worked on a lot in tech was product inclusion and like the lack of representation kind of creates a void of conversation about this in our products and and we’re seeing that like When you’re not talking about it the ramifications Just snowball and so there’s we really don’t have we don’t have a choice doesn’t matter if you’re uncomfortable about it Like it’s too bad.

Like this is happening. So Yeah, I think another Reflection that I always kind of like because I say that like I’m either a door or sees me a window or a mirror is If you’re uncomfortable talking about it, imagine what it’s like living it. Yes, and Discomfort is uncomfortable, and it is not, it’s not you not being safe. It’s the people that are a subject of the thing that making you uncomfortable that are actually unsafe. So thinking about it that way and kind of like not centering yourself and centering The people that are following you that are under you that report to you that work with you even even as a peer.

So building on this, you know managers and leaders we’re having to support team members through more than ever before Through we talked about a little bit sense of purpose safety, you know, all of the racial injustice going on economic uncertainty You know employees are expecting more from managers and and you know they don’t always have the experience like with your manager where they really You know want to get to know you as a person. I think a lot of folks Really it feels really transactional still.

Yeah, and you know, you talk a lot about trauma informed leadership And I’m curious, you know, what this is, where it comes into play when managing teams and, and what leaders can do to better support their teams, really in the midst of all that’s going on. And, and as you said, maybe has gone on for people that, that managers aren’t aware of. Yeah, it’s a big one. And I have a workshop series, but it’s kind of like, it’s a topic that many managers, I would say even, People within the healthcare and human services field aren’t aware of, right?

They think about it in kind of context of clients and not necessarily the people that I work with. But I mean, the basics of it are trauma informed leadership is recognizing that everyone has experienced trauma. If you’ve been lucky to get away with it. COVID 19 was trauma, so you have something, but understanding that, like, that impacts how you can or cannot show up to work. And as a leader, as a manager, you need to be able to engage thoughtfully with your staff.

You don’t have to be their best friend, definitely not their therapist, definitely advise against that, but you can still maintain boundaries and expectations while seeing each person as an individual. They’ve got their own experiences, and these experiences, like I said, are really going to impact the person that you see in front of you. As a leader, you need to sharpen your empathy and emotional intelligence skills. Those soft skills are key, especially those two when we’re talking about being trauma informed.

Yes, the work still has to get done. Yes, there are still deadlines, but there is. A way that you can integrate the humanness of yourself and the individuals that work with you into those deadlines, into, you know, those long work sessions. And I think it really, again, all boils down to understanding the humans that work for you. Right? And they’re your tools. And if you don’t understand how your tools work, you won’t use them well. You’ll break them.

You’ll wear them out before their time. Um, and so really just learning a new skill set and understanding that empathy and emotional intelligence are extremely valuable, especially today. You would have been able to get away with it before 2020, but now you can’t get away with it. Well, and I, I mean, you mentioned the comment of, you know, managers aren’t therapists. I’ve heard a lot of managers say, I feel like I’m a therapist now. Like my people are coming to me with all this stuff and it’s like.

That’s very different. Someone can’t like asking for support and empathy. They’re not asking you to be their therapist. And so I think when if a manager’s listening, you know, no shame if you thought that or said that but like it’s a very different It’s it’s it’s basic to have empathy and to be emotionally intelligent and to show up and to listen to someone when they’re talking to you and not jump in and solve problems and to bring more of that coaching lens as Vashti’s talking about.

So like that doesn’t mean you’re being asked to be a therapist and, and counselor. And I think there’s like this leap to, if we never talked about anything difficult before and now there’s vulnerability, I’m officially a therapist and I’m not equipped for this. It’s not that at all. And so these are, this is like basic human skills, leadership skills, which when deployed, it makes It’s you more effective. It makes your team members happier. It makes, you know, more motivation, more resilience, more, you know, retention.

So it, you know, it’s not about trying to diagnose something. No, I think when someone comes to you and they have a strong emotion or they’re feeling really overwhelmed or really stressed, really stuck, you know, bringing, as I’ve talked about in episodes about coaching, you know, asking open ended questions, what does it mean to you to be overwhelmed? What does the frustration feel like? So that you’re not imposing overwhelmed means too much work and that person loves work.

They had all this stuff at home that was stressing them out. It was like their break, right? So, you know, bringing in questions, I think this is another way to show that empathy. Like, I’m not making a conclusion. I don’t think I already know the answer here. I’m going to really support you in figuring this out. Mm hmm. And I think an example that I gave someone was that, You know, support could look like allowing them to work three days virtually, as opposed to two, because maybe they need support with child care, you know, and you won’t know they need support with child care unless you have the conversation with them.

And that’s very simple, and that could make a difference, complete difference. You know, you could institute floating holidays. So that people aren’t spending extremely important religious and cultural holidays working when we then have days off that don’t, don’t, don’t have as much significance. Really simple things that are very helpful in making people feel included, belonged, giving them a sense of ease. It’s, you know, money’s great. Don’t think anyone’s gonna turn that down, but it’s not just that, you know.

It’s not just money that people will leave or stay for. Yeah, absolutely. And one thing you called out earlier, which I think is so important when you talk about things like flexibility and I, and I want to talk about RT on a sec is by setting expectations, you can then create flexibility. So they’re not mutually exclusive. It doesn’t mean, well, I need people in the office because I don’t know if they’re finishing their work or I need it, you know, have visibility into it.

It’s like set some expectations on the visibility you need and then they can work wherever they can. And so if there’s, I think a lot of times flexibility is. You know, it’s a cover for like, I actually don’t really trust my team members. And so that’s We’re using that in, in the other way, or I’ve read an article recently in New York Times about, you know, without coming in every day, folks are getting less feedback. That’s not the return to office’s fault.

That’s like, you don’t give feedback unless you see somebody in person. Well, you got to deal with that. So I think, like you say, there’s an opportunity to really build that skill. That’s the gap that’s kind of manifesting in another way, which prevents you from being able to. You know, better support your team member. If you’re worried, they’re not getting their work done. And that, you know, an extra, like, I don’t know, or there’s a big deadline and the floating holidays and then all that talk about that in advance.

There’s the holidays are like pretty spelled out. You’re like, you know, about I’m coming. So, you know, is there coverage? Is there something, so these are problems that we can. Solve most of the time with like setting expectations and accountability, right? Yeah, I mean, and a lot of them can be solved without even really jumping into any of kind of the larger topics that I talked about that make people uncomfortable, like just the understanding that You know, I don’t know, Christmas is on a Wednesday, like that’s going to impact regardless of whether or not I celebrate and or am off, it’s going to impact things and being able to plan for that.

Like you said, kind of know when holidays are coming and being able to plan for that and manage the workload, right? You know, that is fairly simple. And that sometimes gets lost. Absolutely. So let’s dive a little into, into return to office or RTO. I mean, different industries are navigating it really differently. And Kirsten, your work as a consultant and based on your experience prior to that, like what are suggestions you have for teams that are wrestling with striking the right balance?

I mean, I know this is like everybody’s question. There’s not one answer, but thoughts? There’s not. I mean, as someone who had no choice but to work during the first 18 months of the pandemic and go in, in real life, one thing that struck me from all of my friends who were able to work from home. was the realization that we could have been doing this all along. I’m getting work done, I can actually, like, tackle my laundry, I can go run those errands.

And so I think one thing that is clear to a lot of people now is we can do this from home. So getting really clear about the why of returning to office. I think a lot of organizations will use things like, Oh, it’s feedback. Or, Oh, it’s, you know, camaraderie. And people are like, there was no camaraderie before, but thanks. You know, um, but getting really clear and being really honest about why management thinks it’s a good idea.

And I challenge people. to let their staff know if you feel like people aren’t being productive and you don’t trust them to get the work done, then you need to be the adult in the situation and let them know that’s how you feel. And then they will make decisions based on that. But being really honest with people about why you want to go back into why you want to go back into the office. For some industries, it’s kind of unavoidable.

But I think again, for a lot of industries, it’s not necessary and never has been necessary and people recognize that. And if you don’t give people a good reason, then They’re going to rail against it. The work still might get done, but on their free time, they’re looking for a different job, you know, and so that’s the ramifications of that. Um, I don’t think people don’t want to work. I just don’t think people want to be worked to death.

And don’t want to be micromanaged. Um, and so, when we’re talking about returning to work, understanding why we’re going back. What are your policies? Does everybody have to return to work? Which teams are returning to, to the office? Um, You know, uh, are we doing this person has to be here on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, this person is, you know, in the office Tuesday, Thursday, what’s the parity and equity in your kind of return to work? If everyone else has to come into work, but the supervisor doesn’t.

That’s not cute, unless there’s a reason that we’ve discussed and talked about, right? And then also recognizing that not everyone benefits from working from home. For some people, being in the office is best for productivity. It’s a good break from home, but You need to know your people, know their situation enough to see how it impacts the flexibility that you can have. Remember that one size fits all and that people’s lives change, right? And me needing to be at home four days a week may change.

When my mom is going to come live with us and now she can take care of the kids so now I can come into the office, come into the office four days a week and only need to work from home on Fridays, you know, and then if you’re doing the hybrid thing, being intentional and investing in technology to support the team, specifically meetings and making sure that protocol aligns with equity and parity with folks in the room and folks online.

So something as simple as like not having those post meeting meetings. Yes. Where half of the group can’t participate and it happens when people are in real life and the virtual folks aren’t part of it and they also happen when virtual folks stay online and everyone else has gone to their next meeting, you know, in person. So really making sure that we’re, you’re setting those standards and that it is consistent, you know, when, if you have that thought after the meeting, email everyone so we can all have a discussion about it.

Yeah, yeah. I love that. I mean, a couple of things to pull out is, is having really clear communication norms, right? That’s the last thing you were saying, I think. Having individualized, you know, conversations and solutions, recognizing that things will evolve and knowing that it’s, you know, I think I’ve been talking a lot with teams and you’re saying the same as like, maybe pilot something, experiment with something for a few months and say, how did this go?

Have a feedback loop and that, you know, I think I’ve worked with teams both that wanted to be in the office, others that are really struggling to have anybody come back together. Like you say, it really depends on industry. I think You know, I, I’ve worked with folks on like hardware engineering teams and they have something that they physically come together to work on and that’s, that’s been really helpful for that. But you know, I think the sort of realization that between the commute and not being able to like, you know, have any sort of time for a selling people have, they’re really choosing time over even if it like, even if you feel like, yeah, I miss colleagues, I miss some of that social time I miss.

You know the casual, you know, water cooler conversations. I also miss my kids and yoga like

It’s tough because I think it’s I know having worked in team operations and and helping build like, you know morale and you know around You know, kind of really, really tight deadlines and getting ready together. And some days we would stay late or come on the weeks. Like there was these moments where coming together was really important that I’ve worked through, but it wasn’t, it didn’t have to be every day.

And it was in the end, it was a team that were like already getting burned out because of your work wasn’t a good situation, probably longterm. So I think it’s, it is really complicated and just taking away what you’re saying again, experiment. Be flexible with it, understand people’s lives, you know, are evolving and changing, and then really, you know, set those expectations around What are you actually trying to solve for? Right, because I think like, again, with like using the tools analogy, like, if you need a screwdriver and you’re using a hammer, it doesn’t matter how hard you whack it, it’s not gonna be done right.

So figuring out like what actually is the reason for returning to office and what ways could you support if people don’t want to or vice versa even because I mean I’ve seen a couple places where people are like, I need to be in the office and they’re like, no, we’re not returning to the office. Right. So again, just understanding that things are different. Yeah. Yeah. Different for everyone. Yeah. And I mean, one, one thing I think comes up a lot is.

It’s, you know, how do you, I don’t know, oversee and track work and time and it’s like all that comes down to trust and conversations and expectation setting. And I think if, if you haven’t, and this is something I talk a lot about with small business owners, entrepreneurs in my, my office playbook program is like, if you haven’t connected priorities to expectations to incentives and have that loop really clear. Yeah, I mean, who knows what people are working towards, you know, like, because it’s like, it could be anything.

So if you were really, really clear, like, when you complete this work, this is like what you get for it. And this is a reward, and this is how it matters and how it comes together. Now, you don’t need to be monitoring someone as much, you know what I mean? Like, there’s going to be a lot of self motivation and then you’ll also see that ownership mindset. Oh yeah. And I think like, when I was in the field and hiring people, when I was interviewed for a manager position and they asked how I manage and I said, I don’t micromanage.

Um, because to me it’s, if I hired you and I thought you were sufficient enough to hire to do this job, then you need to do the job. If you can’t do the job, then I won’t hire you. And why am I going to do the work twice? Right. Because I still have to be a manager and now I have to go do that job as well. Um, and to me it, it didn’t make sense. It still has never made sense.

And I get it. I get why people do it. Um, but like have confidence in the people that you hire. And if you don’t have confidence in the people that you hire, then you need to get better people. You know. And it still reflects on you. Exactly. That’s your responsibility. Yeah. Yeah. Not just like make their life miserable. Exactly. No, I agree. And I think a lot of times I see people micromanaging because they… They’re actually have a skill gap with their own role.

So doing the other job is more comfortable. Yes. That’s something you gotta figure out. Because, like, that’s not that person’s problem. Right. And it’s demoralizing and I think, you know, the ways to deal with that are, I think, by asking your team members for feedback, by being… Aware of you know, how am I spending all my time in meetings? Am I involved in all the decisions? Like there’s some tells that show you that okay. I’m a little bit far down too deep Yeah, and people aren’t gonna step up if you’re in the way People are not gonna step up if you’re in the way and they’re not going to Contribute if you shut them, you know shoot them down and I think that when people kind of Loosen up a little bit, get a little flexible, get a little creative.

They realize that it’s less work for them as a manager too. I have one of my coachees whose manager is the CEO of an organization and she mentioned that the coaching that I have done with their individual has helped them take on more responsibilities which CEO’s life. So much easier. Exactly. And that’s like them investing in their staff by having me coach them and then through that relationship, them being able to grow and take more things off of the plate of the CEO.

And so now her life is easier because now she’s not micromanaging and she’s not in everything and she’s not in the, you know, The emails going back and forth to schedule with the client, all of those little things that she was still doing because she couldn’t let go. And so you can scale, optimize time, save money. I mean, exactly. This is why the, you know, optimizing how decisions are made, how work is done, that is the playbook.

Like, that is why. Because this is dollars you can reinvest in your business, like if we’re trying to do more with less, and we’re micromanaging, we have all of it wrong. We’re going to do less with less, and fewer people because they’re going to quit, so. The last thing I want to ask was, you know, one of the things you advocate for is representative coaching for underrepresented populations, and for managers and leaders listening, How can they be proactive about making sure they are getting their team members the right support so that they have what they need?

Yeah, um, broken record, get to know your people. There frequently seems to be this kind of like assumption that certain people aren’t interested in mentorship or stretch projects or opportunities. Um, the other side of the coin is people assume that they can’t do it. And while, you know, folks aren’t a monolith, you know, each group is not a monolith, like, not every woman wants to be, you know, a boss lady, not every queer person wants to be, you know, the champion, but Some folks aren’t interested, um, but you need to take the time to figure out who does and who doesn’t, right, who wants to get into coaching, who wants to maybe have a job similar to yours one day, um, and also knowing that you might not be the best person to be their mentor for whatever reason, and that’s okay.

But then it’s on you to diversify your network to be able to provide contacts that might be more representative. Maybe it’s a, an industry subset and you’re not really like that well versed in it. Or it might just be, I need a black woman to talk about how to live in the corporate world and you are not a black woman, right? Valid. Then you need to help your staff out. And hopefully you know a black woman, but looking at your network as a leader, when you’re having those conversations with folks and you feel that someone may be outside of your organization or outside of your team, and then if you take a look and you don’t see people that look like the people that work for you, that’s kind of some side work you need to do as a leader.

But it’s knowing them and knowing what their goals and aspirations are and what they want to do. Again, some people’s like, it’s a paycheck, I am here. I clock out on Friday at five. See you later. I’m fine doing this until it’s time for me to retire. And that’s perfectly okay. But for the folks that want to do more or something different or move up or have different experiences, you have to kind of make the way for that and also not punish people for wanting to do more work, right?

Like you have to do… All of your own work, but you can only do coaching after 5 p. m. or on the weekends, you know, or you can do coaching, but we’re not going to pay for it, right? You know, you can do this stretch project, but you still have 100% of your workload, right? You know, that’s not setting people up for success. It is explicitly setting them up for failure, right? And I think that’s where you get this double burden of people Typically running like culture or DEI related work and, and, you know, especially in the corporate world that are, you know, underrepresented and they’re like doing, you know, and there’s like no, no credit for that work.

It’s a lot of volunteer work and then it’s like a huge, yeah. And so exactly. It can’t be undervalued, underpaid or free, unpaid completely. Like it can’t be seen as not high impact work. Like, oh, you were focusing on. You know, too much of this and not enough of this, but you figure all of that out through expectations and getting to know people and what their goals are. Yeah, and I think the heart of it is that people who are leaders, good workers, have potential will do it all and do it well, even though they’re doing the work of more than one person.

But those are also the people that will get burnt out because they’re doing more. Well, before we start to wrap up, I’d love to hear, you know, what’s something you’re working on that you’re excited to share with our listeners? Oh, yeah, so I am kind of changing up my services to really focus more on kind of like intensive retreat sort of structure with like ongoing organizational support for like culture change implementation. So the whole gist is that I start with boards, execs, c suite, however you define, um, the kind of like leaders in your organization and walk them through a couple of my different programs.

So we talk about trauma informed leadership. Um, we talk about like the DEI basics and then the DEI. Advanced classes, we talk about managing conflict, and then, um, from that kind of like retreat intensive, then I work with the organization to kind of filter that down to the rest of the organization. What do your team meetings look like? How are those structured? You know, what does the strategic planning process look like from a not manager side?

Have we talked about? Pay and structured. How open is that? What are your benefits look like? What does your employee handbook look like? Right? So integrating it everything from policies and procedures to just kind of the culture of how we have meetings and how we talk to each other. And so I’m really excited about being able to kind of like dig in with organizations, you know, find all the good stuff and then kind of help them balance out the stuff where there’s room for improvement.

And since it is so time intensive, it’s definitely like, Limited amount of people I’m gonna work with just so I can make sure that, you know, I have the time to kind of get like really deep in there because sometimes employee handbooks can be a bitch to work through. So, yeah, and then other is that, you know, I have room and opening up room to Kind of continue to work on my early career development coaching. And so I specifically serve women and non binary people of color and other LGBTQ plus folks.

So really looking to start to expand that offering for folks. I’m really excited about where that can go and lead and taking the experience I have with the coaches that I have right now and kind of bringing that to more people. Anything you want to leave folks with before we wrap? Know your people. And this little thing I was thinking about, just a couple sentences, is like managing is easy, leadership is hard. Not everyone who leads has a title they deserve and not everyone with a title is truly fit to be a leader.

And Yeah. That’s it. Well, thank you so much. This was such an awesome conversation and so much here that folks can take away right away. So I will include your links in the show notes so people can get in touch with you. Thank you so much for having me, Leo. Thank you so much. That’s all I have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Managing Made Simple podcast, where my goal is to demystify the job of people management so that together we can make the workplace somewhere everyone can thrive.

I always love to hear from you, so please reach out at LiaGarvin.com or message me on LinkedIn. See you next time.