Everyone that I've had in, I've always tell 'em like, listen, I'd love it if you're here for two years, and if you're here past that, it's because you see growth in the company. But it's okay that some people are gonna be there to grow with you because then maybe they never wanna start their own thing.
Welcome to the Managing Made Simple podcast, where I bring a decade of experience working in some of the most influential companies in tech to help you navigate the ins and outs of being a people manager from conflicts to feedback to delegating and. We will leave no stone unturned when it comes to what makes us love managing, kind of hate it and everything in between.
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Let's welcome back to the show and today I am so excited to have my guest with me, Rebecca Cafiero, who is not only a mentor to me and business coach, but also.
A friend who has been a guiding light in my journey as an entrepreneur. Welcome to the show. Let me give you a little background about Rebecca and then we'll dive in. Rebecca is a former VP in the corporate world, now, a founder and c e o of the Pitch Club. Rebecca is a business growth and visibility expert.
And a lifestyle strategist who specializes in helping female entrepreneurs intentionally grow their businesses without sacrificing their quality of life. If you are an entrepreneur or a manager in the corporate world looking to become an entrepreneur, you're gonna wanna tune into this and you really wanna be following what Rebecca's doing.
Welcome to the show, and so excited to dive in.
Rebecca, you know, you've worked in the corporate world now, you're an entrepreneur, you're a founder. I'm curious, what are some of the learnings from being a manager, being a people leader in the corporate world that you've brought to the entrepreneurial space?
I mean, I like to say it's the good, the bad, and the ugly, right? . And I do wanna just start this off, cause I know we're gonna probably dive into the dysfunction. The reason I love corporate, but there's so many beautiful gifts and so many things that I learned through my career and you know, I think it's easy to sometimes highlight like the frustrating wall kicking moments, like the moments that made me want to become an entrepreneur.
But there was also so many that really have developed a lot of the skills and the outlook and the, I'd like to say sophistication, but the strategies that I now. because of that corporate experience. So I think one of the things that I really learned is the mix of hiring on both potential and experience and, and I would actually say often potential Trump's experience depending on the role.
But I was hired almost right out of college, like a year out of college. I was hired by a Fortune one 50 Pulte del Web Homes, and they had this whole program as they were, they were really rapidly growing. This was back in 2002, 2003. And in the real estate market as it was, it was just blowing up. I'm of hiring new college grads and I remember asking like, well, why would you do this?
There's so many people out there that have real estate license, and I remember a manager being really frank with me and, and saying something they probably shouldn't have. It's. because you don't have the bad habits yet. Wow. And so they would get us when we were like fresh out of college and put us through this unbelievable, really immersive, 90 day training experience.
That wasn't just sales, that was anyone coming in. So they were hiring in, you know, construction and service and operations, these new college grads and really teaching them the right way and really investing that time up front. I. Again, 90 days of training and of overhead before that person ever can make you a scent or actually like contribute to the team.
And so I really look at that potential and in even what I do now of like hiring and, and being willing to mentor younger people based on that potential. Now I also will say though, the caveat is not completely falling in love with only potential because experience does translate. And that's something I've really.
in my own journey from corporate into entrepreneurship. And then also, and just, you know, managing and developing my own team is the experience doesn't necessarily have to be what you're hiring for, but does someone have experience or those skills that can transfer into another area that makes sense?
Mm-hmm. . So I'd say that's, that's the biggest one. And then I've got, I've got a couple more. Yeah. Well, I love that specifically because I think right now the skill of adaptability is important more than ever. And I think teams are noticing. Hey, things are changing. The same priorities or the same goals might have to shift.
But if we're adaptable and we hire people who are able to be adaptable and really lean into some of that uncertainty and and can bring those skills across one situation to the next, then they're gonna be able to thrive. And so it sounds like that's something, the adaptability and the transferable skills is something maybe to look for as opposed to the specific, you know, you've solved this specific problem before a hundred.
I mean, it's, it's the personality, it's the desire, right? And I often look to people who had a beautiful resume. I mean, this was back when I was hiring sales. I remember there was at one point where we were hiring two salespeople and we probably had looked at 70 resumes and did 15 interviews. And you can have someone that looks really good on paper, but just isn't necessarily the right fit.
You know? Just because they've been great in the past doesn't mean that they're gonna do great in the future. I think the other, the other thing, and, and going back to, you know, hiring new college grads is don't underestimate the power of a clean. , right? The power of being able to show someone and, and when I started in sales, I didn't know what I didn't know.
I was definitely in conscious, well, I, I may be unconscious incompetence, but because mindset is so important, I remember back in these days long again, it's a real estate analogy, but. We were selling at the time, solid surface oak cabinets, which now I'm like, God, oak is the worst. Right? And brazo countertops, which was like a sub Corian.
It wasn't even a, a marble, a granite, a Caesar stone. And I thought that that was like the bee knee. So people would come in and I would be so excited. I'd be like, and we have. Solid surface. Oh, cabinets with soft clothes. And you know, looking back, that was like what you'd put in an investor home, like if you wanted to spend nothing.
But I was so lit up about it that that energy and that belief really transferred. And I didn't know that, what I didn't know. And I sold a lot of homes because I thought I could, or I thought I would, and excitement. And that was really where I learned. , you know, mindset, belief, you know, motivation can often trump all the experience in the world.
Yeah, I love that example. Cause I think right now, you know, as new grads are entering the workforce, gen Z's entering, I think there's a lot of anxiety around, you know, hiring folks that maybe don't have a ton of work experience. But if we wanna build inclusive and diverse and equitable teams, we have to be doing that a lot more.
So I really like that you called that out, both for entrepreneurs, small business owners, and for folks in the corporate world. That mindset, that enthusiasm about the work that beginner's mind, like you talked about, those are real assets that you can bring to your team. I would say the secret weapon, and this is something I did in hiring, in sales and actually recruited several people.
I was in Vegas at the time, so you know, the hospitality industry is huge, is people that have had any experience in ideally waitressing or bartending, even hosting, it's people that understand how to deal with a lot of different things going. , but can also like acknowledge and validate what's happening in a situation and prioritize what is urgent.
That is probably the other thing because I've, I've seen a lot of people that are maybe academically very, like, have great prowess or are very smart and, and my husband and I had this discussion and you know, you've met him last night, but he. We have this discussion all the time is, you know, he's recruiting and he's like, wow.
He, he went to Stanford, he's recruiting and he's interviewing people that are coming outta Stanford and going, they may be brilliant, but like their basic skills are really lacking. And so I would look at, you know, did someone pay their own way through college or did they work like, What is their life experience, not just their academic experience?
Yeah, absolutely. And and again, I mean, I think like your husband works in tech space, it's so important to be valuing all these different kinds of experiences because that's how you get innovation and that's how you get breakthrough ideas, not just hiring everyone that. Thinks the same way or had the same experiences, then you're just gonna get more of the same.
So I love that. And there's a few more as like people development. Yeah, that is absolutely what I saw done so beautifully at that first job that I didn't see done at a lot of other jobs after that is really investing upfront in the people development. I can't always say I've done it perfectly as an entrepreneur, but understanding it's not always about money, right?
I think that we often think like, yes, we should pay people well, and we should have them feel valued. But again, I always say I'm a salesperson at heart, but we had so many different ways that we were incentivized and so yes. . Sometimes it was like contest to win an experience. Sometimes it was financial bonuses, sometimes it was trips.
Sometimes it was like your manager comes in and works in your office for a day and you get the day off. And so I think I've really worked on making sure that with my own team, that it's not just about paying them well, which we do and we do incentivize them, but sometimes it's like, Hey, if we get this goal, it's not just about you get, you know, this bonus it.
You get this. And so I've built in once a month on Fridays there's a, a mental health day. And I'm like, it's not just to like go chill out. It's like go do something that lights you up. Yeah. And ideally send a picture to everyone and like, we really absorb that and the whole team is off. So no one's like getting emails from other people.
And so just really understanding like how are you developing your people, not just through the, the formal like independent performance appraisals or IDPs or IPAs or whatever the acronyms are. Right. But like, how are you developing people? And again, this is definitely something I would've never done in corporate, but my team, I gifted them the Enneagram for Christmas and this year some of my team mates that are into it, they get monthly sessions with my spiritual advisor slash astrologist
And they love it if, if they're into it. . Yeah. Well, what's so awesome with that is you're tuning into something I talk about a lot, which is understanding your team member's appreciation language. Like if you recognize them the way that works for you and it doesn't land for them, it's gonna fall short.
And so, you know, yes, people should be paid well, but like you say, that's not the only thing. And a lot of times, you know, if we don't, like you talked about experiences, you talked about gifts, you talked about time. , all of those things mean different things to people. And so the collection of those things make people feel appreciated and celebrated in a holistic and well-rounded way.
And they make them feel seen. Yeah, it's, it's a bit like being a parent, right? Is that we'd like to think that we're gonna treat our kids equal and, and now that I am a parent and I have two children, I'm like, wow, my kids are completely different. , our team is completely different. Right? So, people are gonna be motivated in different ways, and there's some people that, you know, it's like the love languages.
Some people are very much, they want to be told nice things, they want validated. Some people want cards. Some people are like, gimme the money or gimme the time off. But I, I, one thing I learned early on is I was really fortunate that that first job I. had a lot of people that became really good friends.
We were all living in Vegas all out of college. Nobody had families. So like we became each other's family and, and now, 19 years later, like these are still my best friends. This group of five women is, you'll work so much harder for someone that you really like and you feel like there's a friendship.
Yeah. And it's not just about like working hard or you know, being friendly so that people will do, like go above and beyond for you. But it's this idea of like really caring at a deeper level. And I can remember. . Literally some of the crazy stories of like going to a casino up to the pint house where you don't even know that people actually live up there if they're a high roller.
And having contracts signed like on a, you know, December 31st at five o'clock to help a goal because my boss was also my friend. Mm-hmm. . And I wanted to do it not just for me, but for them. And I think that especially in entrepreneurship, there's really an opportunity to like grow those relationships.
It's employee first, it's get the job done, you know, the results for themselves. But it's also like you do have that flexibility to build a personal relationship, especially with a small team. Yeah, I love that. So diving a little bit deeper into that, you know, it sounds like you're tuning into helping people find meaning and somewhat of a sense of purpose in their work and.
What are some of the things that you've done, say early on, maybe as you've thought about your team and grown your team to help translate the vision? I think sometimes as an entrepreneur or a small business owner, you've got the vision, you're solid and it, you're excited about it, but it can be tough if our teams aren't fully bought in.
So what are some of the things that you do to get 'em bought in? I mean, I can tell you what I've done wrong. Yeah, let's start there. So I think when it's really easy, when it's like a small team, and as my team's grown, you know, now we have about seven ish people, you know, working either full-time or part-time is I recently, I hired profitability, an analyst or consultant who looked through everything.
She actually interviewed our team, my team, and what I realized is while I am very full transparency about what we're doing, I hadn't actually shared with them the five year. . Mm. And so I went and I sat down and it was, it was actually after the retreat you were just at. And I sat down with the whole team and I'm like, here's my five year vision.
Here's where I see the business though. There's so much opportunity. Here's where I see like my role in it, and here's the opportunity for each of you. And then I asked 'em to share their visions, and I was like, let's make sure we're still in alignment, right? Because we wanna make sure that, like, we talk about alignment all day long, but like, what does that really mean?
Is where we're going. Does it fit with where you're going? Mm-hmm. , because if it doesn't, , it doesn't make sense for someone to continue on, right? Or maybe it's like, maybe it makes sense for the next year or two. And I always want people to feel that permission that while I'd love them to be there forever, sometimes it might just be getting to the next milestone or the next step, and then they're gonna get what they wanted out of the experience and we'll have gotten what we needed and, and then it's time to evolve.
Right. But I just, I just learned that I hadn't done that well enough. And now it's something that we have scheduled in, cuz what you, you know, what you schedule, what you track actually happens. Yeah. And so now it's all right, here's our five year goal, our three year goal, our one year goal, and then we back in like our quarterly.
But not just the goal of like how many clients served or income, but like, what is this vision? What is this mission? Why are we even doing this? Yeah. Because let's, like you and I live in, you know, I live in silicon. and I could go get, well maybe not right now cause it's kind of crazy, but I could go rent a tech job that probably is paying me more than an entrepreneurship job.
but at the end of the day, like my mission isn't just making money. That's, that's part of it, but my mission is, is impact, and I just found a lot more flexibility for impact in, in my own thing. Yeah, absolutely. There's so many great nuggets in there, but one, what I really want to call out is not being afraid to talk about it if this job isn't the right fit.
And this is something I know was like very taboo to talk about in the corporate world that you're supposed to say, my five year plan is to live here forever and to be in this company and to, you know, work on this same project. And we all know that's kind of bs. Like we know that that's not necessarily the case and yet we don't have conversations about it.
And then I think when things like. Layoffs come up or reorganization changes in, in a big company or you know, maybe you're just not feeling your heart in it. In, in a smaller company it becomes really tense and people feel really stuck. They're feeling like they're not loyal or they don't know how to have the conversation.
So flipping in this on its head, when you do what you do and say, Hey, Here's the vision, you know, where do you see yourself in this? And making it okay to say, yeah, I think I could do this for about a year, and then I might, you know, wanna move on. You often see, and I found this to be the case in the corporate world and outside, people are actually more loyal as employees because they feel seen by you.
A hundred percent. That's something Cause I, I doubt with like the rifts reduction in force situations and, and you know, and firing, that was not peaceful. Definitely. And that was usually because there was someone that was not just not performing. There was typically like ethical or, or honest issues, honesty issues.
Yeah, and I've really had the good fortune in, in what I've been doing even over the last seven years, even before my business. Now I can remember where I reached what I call like tension points. , which tension points is, is one of two things. It's either you've just hired the wrong person or you haven't set them up for success in what they're doing.
Yeah. So I can remember my very first in-person assistant, like six years ago, seven years ago, and we, we had one of those tension points and I was like, okay. I, I was frustrated. She was frustrated and I just sit down and look and I'm like, have I given her everything she needs to be successful? And I hadn't.
Right. I was assuming that she could maybe do more than she could, or that she was, you know, a little bit more resourceful, more of. More motivated and so I had to, like I always say, clean up my side of the street. And make everything absolutely crystal clear. Here's what's expected, here's the support, here's the resources, here's the communication.
If, if you're, you're confused on something. And what was beautiful about doing that is one, like it was at the point like I was ready to fire her, is it made everything so much more clear that one, she started to like double her, her productivity. and, and obviously I could doubled the output out of her, but also then, well, she did end up leaving, but she left one on an incredibly good note.
That was like seven months later, and now I had a system built for the person to replace, so they onboarded. So much faster. And then there was none of that tension. And I still, I can probably say for the most part, everyone that I've had in, I've always tell 'em like, listen, I'd love it if you're here for two years.
And if you're here past that, it's because you see growth in the company. Mm. But it's okay that some people are gonna be there to grow with you because then maybe they never wanna start their own thing. Yeah. Or they'd love you and they love the vision and they're like, I'm gonna go along as long as I can for the ride.
And there's other people that are like, I'm here now. And I see this being the next step for the next year to two years. I mean, ideally too, cuz it's a lot to train someone for, you know, and have 'em leave me here. Yeah. And then you get to a point where you're like, what got me here won't get me there.
Yeah. And that's okay. And it doesn't need to be a negative thing. Yeah. . Yeah. And this is so key. I know we've talked a lot about your goal as a manager and leader is to hire rate people that can be really off on their own, that they don't need a lot of oversight in, in micromanagement. And I think this is something that's a real differentiator between, I think when people worry about setting expectations and setting clear guidelines.
That's not micromanaging. That's actually the opposite of micromanaging because when you've mapped it out up front and you've documented it and you've, you've said, Hey, here's what success looks like. Here's what's expected. Here's when we'll check in on things. That is making sure there's clarity and then you can step back.
And so I think oftentimes people can get mistaken Is. Setting expectations is not micromanaging. Asking for, you know, having really high standard is not micromanaging. Checking in frequently is not micromanaging, but it's because you set that all up upfront so everybody's on the same page and then you can go from there.
And I love the idea of using that as an onboarding guide and having, you know, as people join, they're kind of co-creating that and saying, oh, here's something that was needed, or I added in. And, and, and then your company can really evolve as the needs change and as, as new people kind of, you know, put their touch on something a hundred.
and I think it's my personality. Like I have realized I really value autonomy, freedom, independence. I value someone showing me best practices and then be able to do that and ideally improve upon it. And having open communication around ideas. And so I want to have a team, whether it's employees or consultants that operate in a similar way.
And yeah, it was just recently that I was like, wow, I really don't have a. to have someone that needs a high level of handholding or oversight. Um, so setting up the systems and, you know, we use click up, but the SOP is making it all really clear up front and one that's one is not just to make it clear so that they can thrive, it's also to make sure that I'm not the block.
Yeah. Like they're not waiting for me on something. It's also because then it's really easy to see where things aren't getting done or someone's not performing and instead of waiting till, let's say fire drill, and then you're like, why haven't you been doing X, Y, and z? Oh, you know, I, I noticed that we're, we're maybe having some challenges here, like, share with me what's going on.
Is there some process improvement? Is there something that's not understood? And it's, it's much more of a coaching conversation versus like a disciplinary conversation. Yeah. Or performance conversation. Yeah. And that's the way that you demystify feedback and having these conversations by having it way more casual, way more frequently, and kind of as a check in, like, Hey, how are we doing?
Where are you getting stuck? What do you need from me? And I think having that be way more. routine and accessible. And it's not like, can I give you some feedback , where someone's like, oh God. Like no, that you have it as part of the way that work gets done and, and everybody knows what's going on. Well, and with that clarity, you create space Yeah.
For someone to actually create innovation. So I'll, I'll give the example of 80 and you know Katie, so she heads up our PR team. , which is a role that she came into very organically. I, I joke that I've never actually recruited, I just always have had the right people come in often ahead of need, and that's something I know we're gonna dive into.
But she came in and I was like, okay, here's some practices. Here's what I'd like to see. And then we met and I'm like, you developed the process. Maybe I approve it. Yeah, I am like, okay, this is the process. You know, once she's put in her, her unique stamp, cuz she's ultimately the one that's gonna be carrying it out, not me.
Yeah. Yeah. So as long as we get the result, can she come up with a better path? And the beautiful thing now is with that autonomy is she's came up with ideas and processes. Like, like now the team, which our PR team has three people in it, they do it every other week. Pitching blitz. I didn't even know about this.
I was like, what are you guys doing ? And she's like, well, come and watch. So I came in and just was on Zoom and kind of watched them. I was blown away to the point I was like, okay, you know what, I'm gonna put some performance bonuses on this. Like, we're gonna make this a fun contest with like a monetary spiff on it.
And I, I love that because that would've never happened if it was like, here's the what you do. People don't wanna feel like a cog in a wheel. Yeah. They want to feel like they can bring their own uniqueness and their own stamp. Yeah, exactly. And then you're limited by what you've thought of. Like with, with that example, you know, Katie was able to bring, Hey, here's something that I've seen or I read about or I'm interested in doing and, and everybody gets to.
You keep elevating the way that you work by allowing people to do that or creating the space, I would say for that, well, I look back and that's what I did in my job and I, I mean, Early on in my career, I remember I like set some records in house sales. And I remember the older agents were going, how in the heck are you doing this?
And, and sometimes it's like a negative connotation. Like they're like, you know, you must be cheating somehow. And that was, that was a really great and really frustrating learning experience. But it's because I didn't know what the right way was. I mean, yes, I understood like, here's the discovery process, here's this.
But one of the first things I did while I was in training 90 days is I went through and everyone's like, oh, you wanna develop realtor, partner? That's what they said. And we were broke. We were all licensed agents. But you wanna develop realtors because they'll bring in clients and it's, it's an easy sale.
So I went through manually the Greater Las Vegas Association of Realtors and you could like put an A for name and I built out in the old days mail merge list of 60,000 realtors and I would send out these realtor. And so they're like, how's Rebecca selling 20 houses a. Because they had told me something and I just did it a different optimized way that they hadn't thought of.
And, and that's what, where innovation comes in. And again, especially the longer we've been in our career, we're probably less creative. Mm, yeah. That's so true. And I, I'm, I'm curious on that note, you mentioned, you know, hiring before the need. I'm, I'm so curious as a founder, as a business owner, how do you know when it's the right time to hire someone?
Again, this is gonna sound very woo. I mean, in the old days it was like we have a community opening and based upon our current, you know, sales people, we need to fill a spot. But now it's usually like, all right, let's look at like, what are the things that are being done? Because often we might actually have current staff that could handle other roles, right?
Like, like Brittany right now, operations manager, she can actually do strategy and coaching as well. So usually it's like, well, where am I looking to go? What am I needing in the next three to six? And what can I do? What's in my zone of genius? Cause I'm a, I've really would say leaned in hard to not doing things that just because I can.
And then looking at what is the right, maybe right personality fit or what are the right skills. Again, not necessarily the right experience because I have this amazing woman running my PR team who is just, you know, in grad school and never technically did PR before. And she's brilliant. So hiring ahead of need, I would just say it's getting really clear on like what you want, and then I've always just asked.
I'd be like, Hey, does anybody know someone who's really good at X, Y, and Z, or has these personality traits? And then I typically get on a conversation with someone. It's not even an interview, it's a conversation. I'm like, here's where we're going. Does this fit in with what you're looking for? And I've just always found people at the right time that can help me build the thing together.
Because the reality is, is we're focusing on our zone of genius and our day-to-day, like when are we gonna actually have the time to like put all that aside and build out this new thing of where we're going? So we typically need to build it in collaboration. So yes, it's always been like it. It's been typically I've been doing something that I am tapped out on and I need to hire someone not only to take that piece over.
So, Dive more into what I need to do, but then also to build it out fully.
Jumping in here to say, how amazing is Rebecca? She sets the example of someone who really knows how they want to manage their team. But if running your business is the first time you've managed people or had to figure out things like hiring and setting expectations, Then how would you know?
The good news is you don't have to figure this out alone. That's why I'm so excited to be launching my program, the Ops Playbook for Entrepreneurs, small Businesses and Founders. Or I will sit down with you to map out the six essential components of building an effective team from how you want to know when to hire an onboard, like Rebecca and I were talking about to how to communicate your priorities and vision to how to develop your people and beyond.
My goal is to help you map out the how, so you can focus on the what. Figuring out all the nuts and bolts so that you can stay in your zone of. To learn more and get support for your team, reach out at [email protected] Back to the show.
Shifting gears a bit, you know, a lot of the work that you focus on is about helping people bring visibility to their work and to their message.
I'm curious, you know, how do you see managers roles and leaders roles in supporting their team members and amplifying their message? One is, am I saying like own your magic is like helping people. . Right? Yeah. And, and really understanding, you know, again, like we talked about, like what's their experience, what's their personality, what's their resourcefulness?
I'm a big fan of like resourcefulness over experienced s experienced modelers, but you can have someone very experienced that still isn't resourceful. Mm-hmm. , I mean, like we said, hiring the A players. But once you've done that, once you've hired the right people, you've hired people that have the drive, have the personality, have the will, have the resourcefulness, have the talent, it's actually helping them own their.
And I think that's something that unfortunately I've seen a lot of people try to stamp out in corporate. It's just like, this is your job description. This is what you and I, I remember I had a boss who I will not name names cuz I've had some beautiful, wonderful, wonderful bosses who I'm still very good friends with.
But I had a boss that I was at the time kind of in a sales manager, director of sales role, and we had our escrow manager left. Escrow was something I oversaw, but it wasn't something I actually did. Right? So I managed escrow but not, I wasn't in the trenches and they left and I could not get them to. to hire the next person.
It took like seven weeks. Well, in the meantime, I was doing that role too. I was doing two different, literally two jobs, and one of them that I did not really understand. . So you can imagine that that full-time job was like 60 hours a week on top of my 60 hour week job, and I was pulling all nighters every week and my boss came in one day and, and I had just, I'd worked a 40 hour shift or 36 hours.
I had like came in at six, 7:00 AM worked all day, all night. The next day till five or six. and then that next day I didn't come until like nine 30 because I was freaking exhausted. And he is like, where were you? I want your ass in a chair from eight to five. And I was like, I would love to work eight to five.
That would be a break. Yeah. You know, so back to that is like really helping people own their magic and what is their uniqueness? That's the first step. Again, that's validating them. That's helping them feel seen, that's helping them really just have that permission. And then, you know, my saying is like helping women specifically, but people be seen, heard and valued.
So being seen. Are you connecting with the opportunities that bring their strengths? Visibility, right? They give them ownership. Are you helping them get that visibility not only to, you know, the internal team, maybe clients, if that makes sense. That also shows up on their resume. I mean, that's one of the things that we've been doing is, is even helping our teams get visibility, like pr because.
I don't just wanna build a brand around my business, I wanna build a brand around, like the fact that everyone in my team knows how to do the thing, not just teach or facilitate. The next step then is, is being heard, like helping them speak up. I am an Ideogram seven, and I know you're a three and there's a lot of similarity there.
And often we're really good at being loud. We're really good about like advocating for ourselves, but there's a lot of people that. That have a ton of value. And when you have all the loudest, most driven and high achievers, it ends up not being like a mastermind of people. It's like a megamind, cuz everyone kind of thinks the same way.
And so ensuring that those people that maybe aren't as loud have the voice like that they're heard is incredibly important. And the last is just the value. And we talked about this, but how can you make your, your team, your employees, your clients, make them feel valued? And so for me, I, I hate small talk, but I really try in the first few minutes when I'm on a, a one-on.
with a team member of like, what are you excited about right now? Like, what's going well personally, professionally? And one thing that I, I started doing really early on in my career, and I am so glad I did this because it was, it helped me be so effective and it helped me be a leader and a manager that not only got amazing engagement, uh, in retention outta my team, but like I actually brought teams from one business to another.
And I, I think at the time I had like the highest engagement of any department in our company out of multiple divisions. And it was because one, I was really. . There was a point where I was managing, and I think I had 47 reports and like three of them were younger than me and most of them were 20 years older.
Right? Oh my gosh. So I never looked at that like, I am your boss and here's what you're doing. I always said like, I am your partner in the office. You're in the field. Mm-hmm. . And I would ask em when I sat down, cause I had to build trust with someone that was my parents' age. I would sit down and say, how do you want me to work with you?
How do you want to be managed? Right? Like when you're sitting down in those first conversations or in an interview, that's when someone's. You need to know how to navigate ahead of time when it's not their best. It's stressful when there's tension, when they're pissed, right? So I would ask them that. I would say like, Hey, when things get hard, how do you pull away?
What are the signs? Or would you prefer? Like, how do you want me to advocate for you? How do you want me to support you? And I would ask them that upfront and it would create trust. And then obviously I had to do what I said I was gonna do too, right? I had to continue to earn that trust. But, Of like finding out what was important to them helped me have such buy-in from my team and that really has served me in actually building on a team that I am responsible for every piece of, of their success.
Not just, you know, signing off on payroll, but I'm actually responsible for payroll. Yeah. . Wow. I love that. I mean, I think we hit on all the areas we've talked about. It's like it's the perfect wrapper around the importance of having people feel seen, recognizing, you know, really taking the time to build that relationship, all of it.
So I love that story. And one other thing I just wanna add, and this is really for entrepreneurs out there, I think in corporate we, it's, it's easier to do this cuz we typically, typically have bigger budgets, but in entrepreneurship, what I see a lot of people do is as they're scaling, they're going from solopreneur to like hiring a VA or an OB.
everyone's like, I'm gonna start with like the cheapest possible. So the amount of people I've seen higher, you know, an overseas DA that they're paying $7 an hour and then they're getting 'em 30 hours a week, and then they have no idea what to do with them. Instead of finding some high level like experienced person that maybe is $40 an hour but in five hours can get more done or is is higher level.
Like I, I heard this somewhere. I think it was from one of my mentors. Find the A players and then pay them 1.5 mm Wow. Like don't expect to get your six figure or seven figure results with someone that is low level. Yeah. And, and that's, I just would say one of the biggest things is in entrepreneurship.
And I know that feels really stretchy and I remember hiring my first employee and I was like, oh my gosh. I am responsible for like, this person's like, you know, 72,000 base comp. And it was, it was terrifying. And then it was also that it pushed me. Yeah. And now I'm like, wow, we have to do a million dollars to like, make payroll and subscription.
So, you know, now it's, it's not as big of a deal, but I know that there can be some fear around that. because you want to like tiptoe into the responsibility and it's a much easier to let go of someone that's like part-time and cheap, but you're never gonna get the results. And so you have to decide like, do I want to grow fast and do I want to and blow and do I wanna do it in a way that really is honestly easier even though it may cost you more?
Yeah. Because in the end, like time is money and so if you end up having to redo everything or keep hiring people cuz it didn't work out, you end up losing in the end. So a hundred percent. And I, I will say I also made that mistake. I also, everyone's doing these dva. Not that, you know, I still, my podcast editor isn't, isn't overseas and he's amazing.
But I have learned like higher, incredible talent and pay them well and not just, again, not just their pay, but their overall compensation. Yeah. Make them feel valued and you will get. So much more out from them. And I'll make your job easier as a manager. Exactly. Exactly. And it makes you be able to scale so then you can make more money.
It all works out. So before you wrap, you know, what's something that you're working on that you're excited to share with the audience? Hmm. I mean, I feel like I'm excited about all the things, but I think two things right now are coming up. So, one, I mean, just coming off like the, the excitement of last night having an in-person event and, and that's been the beautiful thing about thank goodness this year, is that we're getting more in person.
So I just, I feel like that even though, yes, I know that people are loving remote work, just still bringing together people in person, whether that's their work environment, right? That's like a offsite or retreat, whether that's with clients in person is really something people are craving. And so having some healthy mix of that, even if it's just team building, And then I've got season five of the podcast of Becoming You.
My podcast, which I've got an episode with you that's gonna be launching in a couple weeks. I'm excited about that cause I love being able to provide value for people wherever they're at that they can consume for free. And you know, love being able to have conversations with amazing human beings. Love it.
So where can people find you? And I will add you the podcast Lincoln in the show notes as well. So my name Rebecca Cairo, r e b e c c a. And then my last name is c a F as in Frank, i e r O. And that's rebecca cafiero.com or I'm on Instagram and LinkedIn at Rebecca Cafiero as well. Awesome. Anything you wanna leave our listeners with before we wrap up?
Yes. So something that I did organically, but I didn't realize that it literally would. Probably one of the most valuable things I did is the importance of building a personal brand. So whether, I mean, if you're in corporate, a hundred percent, I mean, if you're an entrepreneur, hopefully you've already done that.
But I think a lot of people are so focused on going up the corporate ladder that everything they're doing is like internal. So they might be building credibility within a company, but the importance of building that brand that really illustrates your strengths really illustrates kind of your mission, what you're about, what you stand for.
Who you are, right? I always say your brand is who you are. Your business is what you do is so important. And when I look at, you know, I left corporate I think nine years ago, and I had built a personal brand without, again, without realizing, just naturally sharing it. And that allowed me to bridge into my first, you know, entrepreneur adventure.
And you just never know where life's gonna take you. So even if you're sitting there right now and you're like, I love what I do, I never will go anywhere. You don't know when you're gonna. a manager or a company. I've, I've had companies that have gotten bought out. I've had companies that had huge changes.
And if you can build that now, that will give you so much equity wherever you go. And, you know, you just spoke at the entrepreneur or Entrepreneur project, which is something that Abby Marra, who is my old national VI of sales, you know, we worked on it. She had built a personal brand at c. That allowed her, she wanted into, into entrepreneurship, but it ultimately let her get her dream corporate job because she was known for certain things.
She had been on podcasts. She'd gotten some press like, and not that you have to get media. But it's like what are you known for outside of your organization that can transfer over, that can allow you to even be getting recruited to a better opportunity for you? I love that and I think for managers and leaders helping amplify that in people, because they're gonna do that stuff anyway.
And so if you create space for that and celebrate that. I know my manager that I had when I was writing my book really celebrated that I was writing it, and she knew I was like kicking ass in my job. It didn't take away from that. And the fact that she. , help me really lean into that. That made me better at my day job.
So I think not to be afraid of that either. And you never know when someone's gonna leave the opportunity, whether it's someone that reports to you or there's someone you report to. I've had both where I've had people that like went on to a different opportunity and then said, Rebecca, there's an opportunity for you here.
Even if that is years later and I'm coming, speaking or facilitating to, you know, to a corporate team, but building that brand. And again, don't just think like you're never just clock in and out. And as entrepreneurs we know that. But even with corporate, like how are you serving outside of your job, Des.
Awesome. Well, thank you so, so much, so much good stuff here. I am so excited to share this, and I think again, whether you're an entrepreneur, founder, small business owner or corporate leader, there is something that you can take away from this conversation. Thank you so much and see you next time. That's all I have for today.
Thank you so much for tuning in to the Managing Made Simple Podcast where my goal is to demystify the job of people management so that together we can make the workplace somewhere everyone can thrive. I always love to hear from you, so please reach out at liagarvin.com or message me on LinkedIn. See you next time.
